Note from Andrew Bishop on Changes to the LightWave Digital Sales Page

if its a case of pay £250 every year or it is £500 if you skip a year or so, then I'm just not willing to bother with that at all.
Ultimately these guys need a supply of money to continue support and development and it's a strong encouragement when upgrades are available to contribute.

If you only upgrade every third release you will still save money and still have had access to LW. Contrast that with a true subscription where no contribution means no access.

Signing up right now is a bit of a leap of faith. If there is no monetary support then these guys cannot succeed. They need money.

LW will fail if enough users don't support the new venture. I think they deserve a chance. We know the people involved.
 
Ultimately these guys need a supply of money to continue support and development and it's a strong encouragement when upgrades are available to contribute.

If you only upgrade every third release you will still save money and still have had access to LW. Contrast that with a true subscription where no contribution means no access.

Signing up right now is a bit of a leap of faith. If there is no monetary support then these guys cannot succeed. They need money.

LW will fail if enough users don't support the new venture. I think they deserve a chance. We know the people involved.

Of course I get what your are saying, but my post clearly states I won't allow that guilt trip of unless 'I/Others invest in its future' then it might die off.

I simply reject that notion completely.

I'm frankly quite sick of the number of 'early access/greenlight' endeavour style projects that people keep coming up with, especially in the tech/3D and gaming landscape.

Seriously, if you are a company or an individual and you want to make money/profit from an endeavour then it is up to you to fund it and make it happen. It's not a charity is it?

Would the CEO of LWD let you share the spoils of their riches if they make a crap load of cash? No chance. I don't get why people are so happy to chuck money at other people that are trying to get rich. If it's not about the money and its for the love of LW, then fund it yourself and make it happen at your own cost not mine.

This lets all journey together is proven many times to be one sided, very few are genuine and it's all speculative investment spiel for the owners.

It's a product you want to sell, make it that it's so good that I want to buy it, I'm not your R&D funding pot! :D
 
LW will fail if enough users don't support the new venture. I think they deserve a chance. We know the people involved.
They're taking a huge chance with this venture. Its up to them to succeed and is on them if they don't. It shouldn't be up to users to throw money at them on the 'chance' they'll get something in return. Show results then ask people for money- that's how any real business venture works.
 
As the current deals on offer include up to 5 shares in LWD, then technically that is exactly what the CEO of LWD is offering to people :)

To be honest that is true and I did give them kudos for that. However I still feel if you logically look at it, one share or five is not exacly going to make you rich one bit. It is a nice token gesture but nothing much more than that really. Cool of them to offer that, no question, but it really isn't something to be completely over excited by.
 
Of course I get what your are saying, but my post clearly states I won't allow that guilt trip of unless 'I/Others invest in its future' then it might die off.

I simply reject that notion completely.

I'm frankly quite sick of the number of 'early access/greenlight' endeavour style projects that people keep coming up with, especially in the tech/3D and gaming landscape.

Seriously, if you are a company or an individual and you want to make money/profit from an endeavour then it is up to you to fund it and make it happen. It's not a charity is it?

Would the CEO of LWD let you share the spoils of their riches if they make a crap load of cash? No chance. I don't get why people are so happy to chuck money at other people that are trying to get rich. If it's not about the money and its for the love of LW, then fund it yourself and make it happen at your own cost not mine.

This lets all journey together is proven many times to be one sided, very few are genuine and it's all speculative investment spiel for the owners.

It's a product you want to sell, make it that it's so good that I want to buy it, I'm not your R&D funding pot! :D
My post is not a guilt trip, it's simply a reality of the situation as I see it.

You can either decide to pony up, or just keep your money.

Some of us have decided to help these guys and have faith in their venture. I do very similar things with Kickstarter.

In this case they've invested to buy LW and I'm sure their available funds aren't infinite, so I'm happy to cross my fingers and give them a thumbs-up and a push-along.

I don't care what you or others think about how business should operate.
 
Totally agree. I'm a hobbyist too and if its a case of pay £250 every year or it is £500 if you skip a year or so, then I'm just not willing to bother with that at all.

Perpetual license or not, it simply feels like you are being held slightly to ransom. We all want latest features and updates so naturally you want to pay it, but going down that route, I could just get Maya/Max Indie year on year.

For a hobbyist, paying anything at all honestly makes little sense when you have a free, feature-rich zero-cost alternative with continuous upgrades available to you.

At that point, it really just boils down to your dedication to the software, your desire to see it continue development, and your generosity.

But I can't agree that paying for software updates is akin to being held for ransom. In my opinion, losing all access to software when you stop paying... that is being held for ransom.

Heck, when the enterprise license server at work goes down and the Maya users lose access (and it happens a lot more than it should), it is a literal work stoppage for however long it takes to get the problem corrected.

They lose their collective minds.

At least with perpetual software, you may be missing some features when you don't update, but you can still work.

They're taking a huge chance with this venture. Its up to them to succeed and is on them if they don't. It shouldn't be up to users to throw money at them on the 'chance' they'll get something in return. Show results then ask people for money- that's how any real business venture works.

I think most business ventures actually work on the premise of presenting a business plan / idea and soliciting funds... either in the form of loans, venture capital, or investment, depending on the venture.

In that sense, most business ventures are situations where people or institutions throw money at something on the chance that they will get something in return, whether that is loan repayment interest, investment dividends, share values, etc.

But no long term business venture operates in a capital vacuum. The money for salaries, equipment, license fees, taxes, workspace, stock, etc. comes from outside sources.

With Lightwave Digital, they got the initial investment they needed to start the ball rolling. I think that this initial pricing offering serves two purposes for them; it helps them gauge interest in quantifiable sales figures and provides additional development funding outside of what they have already procured.

Nobody should feel any obligation to support them in this initial effort, though.
 
To be honest that is true and I did give them kudos for that. However I still feel if you logically look at it, one share or five is not exacly going to make you rich one bit. It is a nice token gesture but nothing much more than that really. Cool of them to offer that, no question, but it really isn't something to be completely over excited by.
They are still offering to let people contact them and just buy shares at the asking price for those who want to make a serious investment in the product/project. As it stands with the existing offers, they are giving people a chance to share in any future profits the company may make. At no point did they suggest they were going to make anyone rich by participating in the deals, you just get to become part of the team with a vested interest in Lightwave Digital being successful which is a rather different thing. Personally, I'm quite looking forward to owning a real share certificate for the first time in my life ... even if it is only for five shares :)
 
I do wonder if the shares would pay dividends or just be reinvested capital, either way the one or five share thing is a bit of fun and not much more. That aside, it makes these current deals no different than the previous Newtek offers we had in the past, stay current and get $295 future upgrades or $495 if you missed versions. The 20% off all future versions isn't that like the old charter deals you guys got, something before my time as a user.

That is why I have to say a big ..........meh, whatever, heard it all before. I did say previously I retracted some negative comments, new hope and all that but, I'm just going back to my original gut feeling on the whole thing.

The purpose of my comments is to indirectly speak to LWD, as a current user of LW2020, that I'm not onboard, wont be purchasing and why. :D
 
They're taking a huge chance with this venture. Its up to them to succeed and is on them if they don't. It shouldn't be up to users to throw money at them on the 'chance' they'll get something in return. Show results then ask people for money- that's how any real business venture works.
Not exactly. The idea of the share is that you are an initial investor, a venture capital investor. That's how any business venture starts. There is nothing wrong with just wanting to be a customer and wait for the product and they are aware this isn't for everyone.
 
And yes as a hobbyist/Indie user, the current LWD price setup, which might of course change down the line, in my opinion and others will have very little appeal to this market and new users as it currently stands.

Why bother when you have free.

I think I'd rather enjoy what you can do with the current version LW2020, rather than focus on what it can't do. People still underestimate the power of what they already have in the toolset and the quality of the render engine. :D

Seeya in about 5 years time.......................
 
I had planned on buying in earlier but the site only had a PayPal option ,which I don't use, and haven't got around to contact anyone. In a video he specifically said the cost is 250, 500 US. That says it wasn't some currency error but an explicit amount in dollars. Now, others are suggesting it's some type of subscription. I've purchased every update since v7 but just may pass this time.
 
I had planned on buying in earlier but the site only had a PayPal option ,which I don't use, and haven't got around to contact anyone. In a video he specifically said the cost is 250, 500 US. That says it wasn't some currency error but an explicit amount in dollars. Now, others are suggesting it's some type of subscription. I've purchased every update since v7 but just may pass this time.
It is not a subscription. Some people feel that in order to get the cheapest price going forth, you need to upgrade regularly. No real difference to previous policy.
 
I too was thinking about jumping back in. At the time of the announcement, It was $500. With the switch to pounds, it jumps to about $622.
Mr @akbishop should have put the price at 200 GBP to make it fair

Therefore, the produce would still cost more, but not that much more.

250 GBP vs 250 USD makes a difference

Now I might not buy as many LW upgrades as I hoped.
Wait and see, just this one

Seems there is a bit of profit-taking on their part

They have such a good thing going with all these new signups, so why not just increase their prices?

However, as with supply/demand, the steeper the price increase, the lower the number of sales/demand
 
Seems there is a bit of profit-taking on their part
I don't think at this point profit taking has anything to do with it. I think they're were some technical issues that didn't quite work out as Andrew Bishop said that the store they used to handle the transactions could only support USD, but then that went down due to the amount of orders going through and the new store provider they are now using supports the British pound and 250, 500, 1000£ is what they want to sell it for. I'm willing to give them some grace on that front as of course NT is a US based company and LWD is British. Although I do think that if they don't adjust the price downward they are going to struggle to get users that have left back on board. I fortunately saw the post about the change of price on Discord so I jumped on it that night, but many missed the post and it wasn't announced anywhere. Also I plan on selling my share as soon as that's possible. :) Brings the price down to a very reasonable amount. :)
 
Also I plan on selling my share as soon as that's possible. :) Brings the price down to a very reasonable amount. :)
You're assuming you're going to be able to sell the share. That's also assuming it won't lose value. That's the thing that gives me pause about it. they said it will increase in value if they do well, but don't say anything about it losing value if they don't. Both are always a possibility when you're dealing with shares of a company. The other component of it is that since they are not a publicly traded company, there's really no way to determine a fair market value for a share. Determining the real value of a share of a private company is based on a lot of assumptions.
I was glad to see someone buy LightWave from NT/VizRT but this whole share thing is ridiculous.
 
I too would like to support, but this does not make sense, especially for freelance, hobbyist like me.
Rayek is right. Although it is perpetual license, but it need to be upgrade every year, it is the same as subscription. In this case, it is worse.
I'm not sure it's worse than a subscription, especially when you look at the evidence.

3ds Max subs are £2000 per year, and no perpetual license, you don't pay, you lose your license.
Substance Painter subs are $550 per year and again aren't perpetual unless you buy via Steam (and even then they could potentially remove your license at any time).
 
I think there is a misconception on how things are going to be priced once LW 2023 is released. As far as I am aware there has been no indication of what the pricing structure will be when that time comes. The only thing LWD have stated, is that they will have something that should please most users. Nobody from LWD has mentioned yearly upgrades, subscriptions, rent to buy, perpetual or anything. The pricing for this offer is exactly that. For THIS offer.

It's understandable that the new pricing for this offer may be off putting for some, but it's no definitive indicator of what the pricing will be for the software after this offer has ended.
 
I'm not sure it's worse than a subscription, especially when you look at the evidence.

3ds Max subs are £2000 per year, and no perpetual license, you don't pay, you lose your license.
Substance Painter subs are $550 per year and again aren't perpetual unless you buy via Steam (and even then they could potentially remove your license at any time).

Max and Maya Indie are CAD $400 per year for anyone earning less than $100,000 per year from creative work. The full versions, and at that sub cost still less expensive than the upgrade from LW 2020.

To be fair, the new team has not published their LightWave pricing yet for when LW 2023's release.

In any case LightWave pricing for indie freelancers, hobbyists, students, and 3d enthusiasts has got to be (much) more affordable than that 500 pounds. Without the "share" GBP 250 would be more in line with market positioning and feature comparison.

The harsh reality is that all major DCCs: Houdini, Blender, Max, and Maya are less expensive than 250GBP per year for 3D indies and hobbyists, and all DCCs are far ahead in regard to development status and feature set(s). Even Cinema4D is less expensive than GBP 500 per year now.

The new LW team must attract new users somehow. On pricing and feature set alone it is an uphill battle in my opinion. But they say they have a 5 year plan in place to turn LightWave competitive again, so it will be interesting to see how LightWave's new chapter unfolds in the upcoming years.
 
...In any case LightWave pricing for indie freelancers, hobbyists, students, and 3d enthusiasts has got to be (much) more affordable than that 500 pounds. Without the "share" GBP 250 would be more in line with market positioning and feature comparison.....

Well, let's not forget that the £500 offer consists of a copy of LW2020 and a copy of LW2023 once released. Not only that, you get a free share and a t-shirt or mug and a Blankety Blank cheque book and PEN!
 
Back
Top