My LW 2023 Speculation / wishlist Thread....lol

[prometheus]

I'm not ? A number of people have brought that up ? Wow....I'm moved ! Thanks for letting me know that !


Don't even...man that pisses me off so much...
But yeah I gave up learning Lightwave because of the ridiculous banking that happens in viewport, I can tolerate a lot of abuse from 3D programs, but for some reason, this one got me to stop learning Lightwave.

personally..never considered that to be an obstacle with such magnitude that it would stopping me from learning or using Lightwave..I have by far more issues with some blender stuff that is more annoying..and not even that would stop me from learning and using blender.

I dont use a wacom tablet in lightwave modeler..so no big deal for me to use the orbit icon.
but there will come a time I will use a tablet in blender.

 

[PetGerbil]

I wish for the new version of lightwave they would remove the banking that happens when you alt-Drag on the perspective viewport, just please disable that altogether and enable only with a key pressed or something...doubt that would be implemented though...

If you move your mouse pointer in circles, It straightens it up.

 

[BakuryuOh]

but there will come a time I will use a tablet in blender.

Two months ago I bought the Wacom One tablet to try sculpting in Blender using a pen, made an eight minutes video documenting my experience:

Long story short, totally worthy it.

 

[prometheus]

Two months ago I bought the Wacom One tablet to try sculpting in Blender using a pen, made an eight minutes video documenting my experience:

Long story short, totally worthy it.

Thanks for that review, yeah..a wacom tablet around that level I have in my mind, but probably not this year, have to wait and see, economics and all that, but the fingers are itching, especially since sculpting is something I have put aside too long already.

Great modeling and cool style there

 

[BakuryuOh]

Thanks for that review, yeah..a wacom tablet around that level I have in my mind, but probably not this year, have to wait and see, economics and all that, but the fingers are itching, especially since sculpting is something I have put aside too long already.

Great modeling and cool style there

Thanks !
Sculpting you can do with the mouse, it is the texture and or color painting where the pen is indispensable, there is simple no way to create the organic color imperfections with the mouse, you need the imperfect, organic movement and pressure sensitivity from the pen for that.

Wait for year end sales, I waited a full year till it was on discount for me to get it. Take your time.

 

[SSLightwave]

Nope..I model much in subdiv mode, (not catmull clark)
It gives me a more visual feel of the end product, and I only tab switch occasionally to see that I don´t exceed with intersecting geometry.

Just coming back to this for a second- this video popped up in my feed on youtube today

 

[prometheus]

I havent seen it..on the mobile and cant wasre surf time ..so tomorrow..but even not having seen it..I can state that it is bogus..I have explained that before..there is no way around the direct feedback that is essential when tweaking subsurface forms...especially when you need to keep a very low res main shape.

if you work on characters..a bit different..but there are more forms than that.

it starts to pile up in similarity to those claiming quad views are obsolete and not needed..that is just one dimensional thinking.

 

[Thomas Leitner]

Just coming back to this for a second- this video popped up in my feed on youtube today

The video shows a very one-dimensional view of things. Especially the title is wrong, what the guys themselves say in the video: of course you have to watch the subD model again and again during modelling. The subD model is the final product. No matter how beautiful the cage is, if the subD model doesn't work, it doesn't help at all.

It also depends on what you model.
A model that is deformed during animation should have the lowest necessary resolution cage in order to deform nicely. There can be big differences between realistic and cartoon characters. There can be big differences between face, body, arms and legs.

If you only ever see the cage when you animate, there will always be errors in positioning. You can also see that in the video: even the high-resolution cage of the foot floats in the air as a subD. To prevent this, the cage would have to be ridiculously high poly. The ramblings are just humbug.

Not that an character model should always look like their "bad" example, but of course you can animate it with bones just like other models. If you want you can easily choose a low subD level for display and it looks like a high poly cage and deforms better.

A completely different case are objects. For example, if you build a car, you can only edit curved shapes in subD to make them really fit.

Seriously considered, it will always make sense to switch back and forth between cage and subD when modeling. In any case, I see no reason why one should not model in subD in certain cases.

ciao
Thomas

 

[prometheus]

exactly Thomas..and the title should be never..say never..sort of.

and imagine how useless edgeweighting would be
.or ..hard to tweak..unless adjusting it in subpatch mode.

 

[SSLightwave]

The video shows a very one-dimensional view of things. Especially the title is wrong, what the guys themselves say in the video: of course you have to watch the subD model again and again during modelling. The subD model is the final product. No matter how beautiful the cage is, if the subD model doesn't work, it doesn't help at all.

I never said anything about not switching to subD during the process, but the main point was that most editing should be done with subD off.
You can call it one dimensional but both of them work in the industry so take that for what its worth.

 

[Thomas Leitner]

I never said anything about not switching to subD during the process, but the main point was that most editing should be done with subD off.

There is absolutely no point in making a general rule for a myriad of different tasks. There are objects that you can and should model completely in subD.

You can call it one dimensional but both of them work in the industry so take that for what its worth.

I have no problem with Morten Jaeger and Henning Sanden, but their basic message is still one-dimensional. I tried to explain my point of view in my last post. You can answer that factually but not with the argument that the two have worked in the industry.

ciao
Thomas

 

[prometheus]

I never said anything about not switching to subD during the process, but the main point was that most editing should be done with subD off.
You can call it one dimensional but both of them work in the industry so take that for what its worth.

The physical case for what you actually can do with a subject..supercedes credibility against the notion of any hall of famer for working in the industry..
pros do not necessary work the same ..just because they work in some specific
area..so that sentiment I dont think hold up.

You simply cant adjust a lower cage geometry to high accuracy enough and respecting the final surface form..without subpatch active..while tweaking.
unless dividing it so much and generate unnecessary geometry for many model cases..unless it specificly should have a lot of detail of course.

But that said..it all depends on the model..cars..go with subpatch tweaks..but characters of high detail and realism...model tweak generally without it..the difference between the base geometry form and its final subpatch surface result.. is much lesser than with other types of models.

 

[prometheus]

The "none" professional William Vaughan, making cartoony characters,'
a case where you would find yourself in trouble depicting the final shape while adjusting, If you try to model without subpatch surfaces active...

Should you be faced with the task of modeling Gollum, or Ceasar from Planet of the apes, that would be more challenging on the details on the face, where you would need more geometry in the first place, which would generate a mesh closer to any final subpatch surface state..thus reducing the need of tweaking in subpatch surface mode.

Other cases with subpatch surfaces active, cars, design assets etc .

 

[SSLightwave]

If you were making Ceasar or Gollum you wouldn't be dealing with LightWave or Blender, you'd be dealing with Zbrush.
And no offence to William Vaughan but those videos are over a decade old- and sorry but disagree that you 'find yourself in trouble not working with SubD's on'. Its actually the other way around.
And I don't see any real difference whether you're dealing with a low poly or high poly object, if you've been modeling for any length of time, you'd already have a sense of how the character will subdivide when subdivision is active that you wouldn't need to work in it all the time, the topology is what controls the subdivision, not the other way around.

 

[prometheus]

If you were making Ceasar or Gollum you wouldn't be dealing with LightWave or Blender, you'd be dealing with Zbrush.
And no offence to William Vaughan but those videos are over a decade old- and sorry but disagree that you 'find yourself in trouble not working with SubD's on'. Its actually the other way around.
And I don't see any real difference whether you're dealing with a low poly or high poly object, if you've been modeling for any length of time, you'd already have a sense of how the character will subdivide when subdivision is active that you wouldn't need to work in it all the time, the topology is what controls the subdivision, not the other way around.

The first line, that is not relevant to the concept of lightwave subpatch modeling, and to what level that can bring.

As for gollum, no ..I don´t think they used zbrush for the first gollum, Mirai I believe and animated in maya, maybe modeling correction there as well.
Nowadays, yes maybe, Zbrush.

William Vaughan would still model that way thoug..pretty sure of that ..if using lightwave, it´s not about"old" videos, but the type of characters he is doing..or was doing, he´s not doing the level of gollum or ceasar, they are still valid, so that sentiment from you just doesn´t hold up.
And I I really question what you say, those types of figures showne by william, unsubpatch them..and try and work on that..you are in for a trouble, it´s Not the other way around.
You are stuck centered on high density models, that´s the problem.

You can´t deform a low cage mesh while at such low res level, not with any sense of how the final product would turn out..its al spikes and blocky forms...no matter of how you consider what controls the topology, that level simply can´t represent the final form in adequate manner for anyone to use it properly

 

[prometheus]

Here´s the difference if you can´t see Any Real difference

But...try adjust surface tension on a car model, while not subpatched, in principle you will have no sense of the surface form while none subpatched.

 

[SSLightwave]

lol well next time I model a 6 sided box, I'll be careful.
But even then, I know exactly how the model will look when subdivided.

 

[prometheus]

lol well next time I model a 6 sided box, I'll be careful.
But even then, I know exactly how the model will look when subdivided.

Oh..it doesn´t end with a 6 sided box, you can have 8 sides, 20 sides, the difference between the base form and the intendented final shape would be equally the same.
As for your confidence in you would know exactly how the model would look as subpatched, that I am certain is just false., you just can´t predict the final curvature in full accuracy, you may think you can, but you cant.

but I think this is as far we should subpatch the levels of postings in this matter, you could get one..or two more samples.

 

[BakuryuOh]

Oh..it doesn´t end with a 6 sided box, you can have 8 sides, 20 sides, the difference between the base form and the intendented final shape would be equally the same.
As for your confidence in you would know exactly how the model would look as subpatched, that I am certain is just false., you just can´t predict the final curvature in full accuracy, you may think you can, but you cant.

but I think this is as far we should subpatch the levels of postings in this matter, you could get one..or two more samples.

View attachment 156190

View attachment 156191

I wish LightWave's subpatching technology can be brought into Blender, yes it can't handle N-gons, but the word is it subdivide into less polygons compared to conventional sub-d and is more efficient ? I don't know...it just feels good to have another option.

 

[prometheus]

I wish LightWave's subpatching technology can be brought into Blender, yes it can't handle N-gons, but the word is it subdivide into less polygons compared to conventional sub-d and is more efficient ? I don't know...it just feels good to have another option.

That´s blender dreams, this thread was supposed to be a Lightwave wish list

wishes that I doubt will happen, they have their own "better" subpatch method in terms of quality, they could perhaps just make it more efficient and speed it up if possible, that´s all it needs.

The rest is probably about assigning shortcuts and make the switch between subpatch and none subpatched easier, one issue is that it takes a bit too long to apply the subpatch modifier, after that it´s fairly ok though, but I need to evaluate the versions more than I have.

I have assigned the activation of subdiv modifier to the quick favourites quick menu, for easier adding it, not as fast as tab, but the difference is that it is a modifier and thus can not be active all the time, there is no hardcoded subpatch surface modeling function in the edit mode of blender, then ctrl-1,2,3 for various levels of divisions (use the main number keys, not numpad)

The issue for me is that I am fixed on the lightwave Quick model focus workflow, while in blender you have to be aware of the scene, object, and edit mode while constructing the model, I just feel more comfortable to do simpler things, fast in lightwave modeler with a focus that doesn´t need me to be aware of it´s context in the same way as in blender, constantly need to be aware of where the mouse cursor is to zoom in, same with selections..feels more easier to get to the point in Lightwave modeler, selecting points, copy and paste in to layers, not collections..which I am not a fan of, though they probably hold some advantages.

Switching between poly, point, and edge mode goes by far easier with a spacebar action than doing the same in blender, with lightwave for me..it´s just easier to find tools and organize them where I want rather than having to be aware of the context Only provided tools in drop down menus of blender, the edit tools in blender nowadays practice the multi tool under one icon workflow, like sketchup..which I hate, makes it much more difficult to find the tool, could be the smooth tool, the scale, push tool, or the tool for various extrusions, they are within the same icon, in a double menu sort of, I think it´s unnecessary, they have wonderful scultping tools/brushes, most of them with their own icon and label within a scroll list, those are not hidden in multifunctional brushes the same way the edit tools are.

Shortcut wizard is almost what you need to be with a blender workflow.