Lightwave volumetric Items, clouds and sky moods, planet clouds, fog, godrays Part 2.

Nebulae example from the film - 65

Yeah..totally doable in Lightwave, if you have renderfarms at your disposal, and if you are working for a film, that is a given.

Doable in blender faster with Evee as well, I think...not quite sure about the quality though.

What they actually used, I don´t know yet..
Framestore and Ghost VFX did the VFX shots I think.
 

it looked very LightWave-y - doubt it is tho'...
o4lHP9c.gif


agree, a LW renderfarm would be a must


 
And more, since someone poked at my interest in planets again..

Planet is LW23, land at own risc..

Just the surface..(could be improved a lot)..

LW23 planet.jpg


With Atmosphere..

LW23 Planet_Atmosphere.jpg


With a bit of turbulent clouds..

LW23 Planet_Atmosphere-Clouds.jpg
 
Changes in lighting and atmosphere thickness, as well as increasing cloud shadows, with that ...Loosing ground visibility is inevitable, also to note..since atmosphere is thicker, even the cloud parts that are a bit lower in level vanishes in the dense atmosphere, compared to the above settings.

LW23 Planet_Atmosphere-Clouds_lighting and atmosphere thickness change.jpg
 
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Does the atmosphere have IOR?
As I suspected with my little physics knowledge that are avaialable based on a not so high degree education, and provided you trust this source...
Light is propagating through the medium by asymmetry/anisotrophy directional guidance.

Does the Earth have an IOR?

No, the Earth's atmosphere does not have a refractive index (index of refraction, IOR) in the same way that solid materials or transparent substances do. The refractive index is a property that describes how light propagates through a medium, such as glass or water, by bending or changing its direction.

While the Earth's atmosphere does interact with light by scattering and absorbing it, the effects are more complex and vary with factors like atmospheric composition, density, and temperature. These variations in the atmosphere can cause the bending of light rays, known as atmospheric refraction, which can affect the apparent positions of celestial objects and phenomena such as mirages.

However, the refractive index is a specific quantitative measure of how much a material slows down light compared to a vacuum, and the Earth's atmosphere does not have a constant value for such an index across the entire atmosphere. Therefore, it is not accurate to assign a single refractive index to the Earth's atmosphere as a whole.


I could really use a much faster CPU, or GPU solving the volumetrics though, it would really put me in to another level where I could do iterational tweaks much faster and effictive, and also include more objects in the scenes, or multilayered clouds etc, right now it still takes a bit too much of time ..for hobby work.

But had it been much faster, not really any limit to how great it could look, what kind of clouds and planets you could create, apart from maybe the lack of volume bounces/multiple light scattering.

cloud layers like this also have wind directional shaping, this is something you just can´t do (that easy) with pure fractals I believe, the cloud pillar should rise in height but yet drift away directionally the higher up it goes, not sure I could pull that off with fractals..have to look in to that, needs some x,z vector transforms at the height of the volume items base Y scaling...and with some form of lesser influence on the lower part of the Y scaling density.

With VDB simulations you could create such forms though, but to get that detail and voxel resolution simulated on a full sphere, that would take some serious work I think, and hardware up to date.
There is a Jupiter gasplanet preset with embergen, but it´s too slow to simulate for my taste, and too low in resolution, increasing it to desired level for VDB export of good quality..may cause the system to halt.

You could isolate simulate regions only with such forms, but very hard to match VDB shading and Volume shading, since in lightwave it´s not the same, blenders VDB and Volume shading Is the same, so I may try there though, but I just hate it´s fractal set..Lightwave rules there :)
also much easier in lightwave to get going with direct spherical volumes rather than adding node to node to node and set values for it to conform as spherical in blender.

Samuel Kruger has some planet atmosphere´s in blender that is Awesome as well, may try and engage a bit more with him on this topic, since clouds, space shots, planets is his thing.

There isn´t really any Anisotrophic/asymmetry value either it seems for the atmosphere, usually I go with 0,3-0,5 for the assymmetry though, it just looks better than a value of 0.
The atmosphere should mostly on large scale be homogenous, isotropic, but dust, humidity, and pollution will most likely change that.
 
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As I suspected with my little physics knowledge that are avaialable based on a not so high degree education, and provided you trust this source...
Light is propagating through the medium by asymmetry/anisotrophy directional guidance.
Yeah, it doesn't have traditional IOR but in other atmospheres I have built I usually give it an IOR value... that way you get a rim effect with more opacity and it becomes increasingly transparent as it fades towards the center of the volume or alternately, if the camera is looking straight at a portion of the planet the atmosphere is mostly transparent. You also get just the slightest light aberration in areas where the density overlaps.

Of course, density helps with that affect as well.

I could really use a much faster CPU, or GPU solving the volumetrics though, it would really put me in to another level where I could do iterational tweaks much faster and effictive, and also include more objects in the scenes, or multilayered clouds etc, right now it still takes a bit too much of time ..for hobby work.

But had it been much faster, not really any limit to how great it could look, what kind of clouds and planets you could create, apart from maybe the lack of volume bounces/multiple light scattering.
Even Blender chokes on planetary volumetrics. The ones I have set up for my "earth" take roughly 20 minutes per frame on my GPU at work (Quadro RTX 4000). Better hardware would definitely help.

You could isolate simulate regions only with such forms, but very hard to match VDB shading and Volume shading, since in lightwave it´s not the same, blenders VDB and Volume shading Is the same, so I may try there though, but I just hate it´s fractal set..Lightwave rules there :)
Definitely agree there. The fractal options are seriously limited.

Samuel Kruger has some planet atmosphere´s in blender that is Awesome as well, may try and engage a bit more with him on this topic, since clouds, space shots, planets is his thing.
I used his tutorials to create my earth clouds. I also had a conversation with him on Artstation about the first set up he had a tutorial for... the clouds were generated from the center of the "earth" so from the viewpoint of a craft approaching the earth at an oblique angle, the clouds were directly touching the ground.

I used Solidify on the VDB sphere and that let me control the height from the surface of the "earth" and then I flipped the external polygons to face inward. So the clouds are generated between the interior and exterior portions of the mesh and the shadows fall onto the "earth".

It mostly works, although I am still fighting for more detail so that I can see how much the setup is directly affecting the height of the clouds. I know in places it is flattening the tops... which is expected and can be realistic... but in other placesI need to see how much lower elevation clouds are affected by the setup but I just don't have enough small scale detail to tell.

I know he has newer material and I have been meaning to set aside time to get deeper into it, but I haven't had the opportunity yet.

I am starting to get myself trained back up on Lightwave and will definitely have to step back in there and see what I can do (or not do, as is most likely the case).
 
I used Solidify on the VDB sphere and that let me control the height from the surface of the "earth" and then I flipped the external polygons to face inward. So the clouds are generated between the interior and exterior portions of the mesh and the shadows fall onto the "earth".
Solidify on VDB`s? that´s not possible..
Aren´t you just meaning volumetric meshes, or meshes with volumetric material?..those aren´t VDB´s to speak of, just volumetric material or if you use volume to mesh.
You simply have no modifiers available like solidify in blender to use on VDB files.
 
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Then again, you still have Air refraction, but it´s related to the temperature in the region, that is why we can see that hot waving air on the ground very hot summers, but otherwise generally there isn´t any Atmosphere refraction.

Refractive index​


Distortive effect of atmospheric refraction upon the shape of the sun at the horizon.
Main article: Atmospheric refraction
See also: Scintillation (astronomy)
The refractive index of air is close to, but just greater than 1. Systematic variations in the refractive index can lead to the bending of light rays over long optical paths. One example is that, under some circumstances, observers on board ships can see other vessels just over the horizon because light is refracted in the same direction as the curvature of Earth's surface.

The refractive index of air depends on temperature,[47] giving rise to refraction effects when the temperature gradient is large. An example of such effects is the mirage.

Yeah, it doesn't have traditional IOR but in other atmospheres I have built I usually give it an IOR value... that way you get a rim effect with more opacity and it becomes increasingly transparent as it fades towards the center of the volume or alternately, if the camera is looking straight at a portion of the planet the atmosphere is mostly transparent. You also get just the slightest light aberration in areas where the density overlaps.

As mentioned above, but for volumetric atmosphere, you can´t use any IOR value, no such option with volumetrics..but if you go for mesh surfacing, so be it, I may look in to that more later, but it´s kind of more fun to have something more towards the real thing, and using truly volumetric clouds as well.

But that effect you spoke about with more increasingly transparence and fades towards the center of the volume, I think it can be don by simply changing anisotrophy values with the volume item, or volume material in blenders case.
 
Solidify on VDB`s? that´s not possible..
Aren´t you just meaning volumetric meshes, or meshes with volumetric material?..those aren´t VDB´s to speak of, just volumetric material or if you use volume to mesh.
You simply have no modifiers available like solidify in blender to use on VDB files.
Yes, a mesh using the volume connector on the material shader.

Are you loading VDBs for the planetary clouds you created here?
 
Yes, a mesh using the volume connector on the material shader.

Are you loading VDBs for the planetary clouds you created here?
Now we are really confusing each other this late night, or morning over there? to add to the confusion.:D:coffee:

Volume connector sounds kinky as well :) principled volume shader in to the material output is probably the best naming :), or volume scatter shader.

Tip as I mentioned before, you can assign the same volumetric material and shading to different VDB cloud files, you just have to browse link the material to the very first material you have set for a cloud, so once you tweak that material, all the other clouds change instantly as well, this is not possible in Lightwave.

Nope..I never said I used VDB`S for the planetary clouds I showed here, I only mentioned briefly that you may be able to experiment with that and embergen, since it has a
preset of jupiter already setup.
You were on the other hand mentioning that you used solidify on VDB`S ..so that was confusing since you can not do that.

So my setups is just a mesh sphere for planet surfaces not the shape sphere,.
Atmosphere is just a volume item, none pyroclastic mode, but without any "hypertexture"
Clouds the same volume item but with a texture obviousl, and completely different scatter settings.

I would like to master embergen a bit more before trying fully spherical cloud layers, probably my machine won´t manage the level of detail and voxel resolution requried though.
Been messing these latest 2 hours with some cloud forming testing with various noises, pressure rates etc, seeking some science help for how clouds rise with pressure rates, buoyancy etc, but very hard to translate the descriptions in to embergen values.

Then again, if they (jangaFX) do Implement a fully scientificly model to get accurate cloud formings, then wheres the challenge and artistry and hard work go then?
Embergen was mostly designed to create fire and explosions and stuff..so you just tweak those settings and reduce fire, combustion and heat to minimum and use pressure rates, wind, and a little fractal noise for density as well, and maybe also fractal noise for force inputs as well.

I think Embergen misses some key functions though in terms of density emission, there are workarounds with fractal noise shapes..but not ideal, the fractal noise you add ass emission density also affects the movement of the cloud smoke rising, it shouldn´t be that way, or at least an option to turn it off.
 
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@RPSchmidt

So you never got hooked on to Terragen?

Personally the render feedback interactively was/is just too slow for me to tolerate, and it´s UI, other than that just wonderful atmospheres and to some degree´s clouds for the larger skyscapes, it could really use VDB import..with full sequence support, that would take renders within Terragen to a whole new level, as well as taking Embergen Cloud formations with Terragen lighting to a new level.

I just think the Terragen Development goes too slow, and still the UI isn´t the nicest to work with.
They do have some interesting Tutorials with the Use of Lightwave to setup the scenery combined with Terragen.
 
Not Lightwave, but here´s the Gas Planet sample from Embergen( part of original preset files)...since we are covering some planet stuff as well.
Complex setup with a lot of emitters, collisions etc.

jupiter.jpg
 
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