Can this effect be replicated in LW (Gravity mist particle fx on solar panels)

[Planeguy]

Ah..and I should be in bed now, but this effect is a bit fun to test in embergen.

Quick setup with emission object and collision object, no actual object import for this quick test, and the items are still, with only fluid emission turned down all bouyance and other forces within the actual emission, one line force to push it, strength can be increased as you wish to make it faster etc.
Test of repulsion makes a bit more swirl when the collision hits.
I didn´t hide the collision object, the sphere in this case, but that is easy to do in embergen and only work with the tweakings of the physics for the collision object, repulsion etc.
Smoke generation is turned off, as well as off in the render settings, only fuel and flame is used.

There are so many ways to push the fluids, no vorticity, increase vorticity, add turbulence force, wind chaos, pressure, pressure chaos etc.
But keeping it as simple as possible from scratch when working with collision force is probably a good approach, so turning down as many parameters as possible that causes undulations, basicly you want a straight flame initially.
I actually forgot to showcase some other settings that made some interesting results in the flame.
No narrations before bedtime, just a teaser.

Then there are some options, either export to vdb or make a pixel perfect camera match, and render the fluids, Or..use the particle render in embergen and render that as well,
It has some nice character to it that could complement the fluid gas.
The shading could be adjust much better and also more dissolve to fade faster, final effect should be soo much more subtle, and work on several sections to sell the effect of affected panels or other objects re-entering, together with setting camera shots up of course., but it will have to do for a teaser, just messing around for a first test....

Nice!!! It started looking amazing at the end and you cut it short! At the 1:47 mark, you activated something that added another effect on top and bottom of the sphere. That looks amazing. What is it called? With a different color gradient, and a faster output (can the sim be accelerated?) That would be quite close to Gravity.

 

[Planeguy]

Jason key on youtube does some nice experiments with Embergen.
here´s a comet trail, principles on how that is made can be tweaked for re-entry objects in atmospheres as well, also check his Embergen Realtime VDB clouds in Unreal, and yes..they can be animated as well, working with godrays in realtime to a quality I really haven´s seen before in real time.

That looks good, however the behavior of the gasses in your sim matches more closely the look in the movie.

 

[Planeguy]

His solar animation has the gas effect like in the movie. If it was straight, and going at a much faster rate that would work!

 

[prometheus]

Nice!!! It started looking amazing at the end and you cut it short! At the 1:47 mark, you activated something that added another effect on top and bottom of the sphere. That looks amazing. What is it called? With a different color gradient, and a faster output (can the sim be accelerated?) That would be quite close to Gravity.

That was just increasing the shading with shape flame decrease of flame density channel, so the flames are more pronounced, that is just the flames, the rest of the smoke look behing is the fuel emission density, as well as flame density mixing, if you turn that off you only have those flames, but the shape flame decreasing of density, only shades the actual flame, and do not add any density channel to it, it´s a kind of hybrid mix where the flame shader can interact with the overall density and you vary how much should be flame or density pronounced within the flame shader.

it´s hard to describe exactly, and I am still learning Embergen, but it has a great shading system to get you wherever you want with the fire looks etc.

 

[prometheus]

His solar animation has the gas effect like in the movie. If it was straight, and going at a much faster rate that would work!

Yeah maybe, but i´s a bit different, you don´t have to refer to that as a starting point, what I did can work as well, depends on how you tweak it all and what look you want.
The solar flare effect I think he may have used the vorticle forces, those can make some nice swirls, but takes some time to learn to control..for the effect we initially talked about, it´s probably not necessary since you have so many other options to create undulated swirls, from wind chaos, pressure chaos, repellation chaos in the collision, turbulence masking, vorticity flame masking to control vorticity at many levels..and to add to that, additional fractal noise forces, there is so many tools to create undulated swirls that it´s almost too much..and too little time to try them all.

 

[Planeguy]

That was just increasing the shading with shape flame decrease of flame density channel, so the flames are more pronounced, that is just the flames, the rest of the smoke look behing is the fuel emission density, as well as flame density mixing, if you turn that off you only have those flames, but the shape flame decreasing of density, only shades the actual flame, and do not add any density channel to it, it´s a kind of hybrid mix where the flame shader can interact with the overall density and you vary how much should be flame or density pronounced within the flame shader.

it´s hard to describe exactly, and I am still learning Embergen, but it has a great shading system to get you wherever you want with the fire looks etc.

Interesting. Yeah, the shading looks great. I wish phoenixfd had a realtime version like embergen.

 

[prometheus]

Xflowfield and xparticles for cinema is really nice..

 

[Planeguy]

Yeah maybe, but i´s a bit different, you don´t have to refer to that as a starting point, what I did can work as well, depends on how you tweak it all and what look you want.
The solar flare effect I think he may have used the vorticle forces, those can make some nice swirls, but takes some time to learn to control..for the effect we initially talked about, it´s probably not necessary since you have so many other options to create undulated swirls, from wind chaos, pressure chaos, repellation chaos in the collision, turbulence masking, vorticity flame masking to control vorticity at many levels..and to add to that, additional fractal noise forces, there is so many tools to create undulated swirls that it´s almost too much..and too little time to try them all.

I see. And if I wanted to insert animated objects, what's the procedure with embergen? do you have to export alembic or can a fbx do just fine?

 

[prometheus]

Interesting. Yeah, the shading looks great. I wish phoenixfd had a realtime version like embergen.

In the end of the week I may get some time to test the vdb exports of it in both blender and Lightwave
When it is a matter of these kind of thinner fluid simulations, it´s easier to deal with the quallity I think, and faster to render than thicker smoke.

 

[prometheus]

I see. And if I wanted to insert animated objects, what's the procedure with embergen? do you have to export alembic or can a fbx do just fine?

FBX/Alembic/Obj
Those are the import options, and you have to right click in the nodal editor and add an import node, then click on asset tab, and under file asset path and the folder icon you locate whatever file you have saved out.

 

[Planeguy]

In the end of the week I may get some time to test the vdb exports of it in both blender and Lightwave
When it is a matter of these kind of thinner fluid simulations, it´s easier to deal with the quallity I think, and faster to render than thicker smoke.

Appreciated! Btw, what's the amount of particles for this scene?

 

[Planeguy]

FBX/Alembic/Obj
Those are the import options, and you have to right click in the nodal editor and add an import node, then click on asset tab, and under file asset path and the folder icon you locate whatever file you have saved out.
View attachment 152793

That's simpler than I thought. Does the import node need to be connected to any of the other nodes?

 

[prometheus]

Appreciated! Btw, what's the amount of particles for this scene?

There´s no particles emitted, it´s pure voxel grid resolution, though I can switch to a particle renderer, or use both at the same time, don´t have time to show right now though.
voxel count 320x128x128

Yes, you need to feed the import nodes various output nodes in to other nodes, depending on like fbx import, outputs may be there for cameras, but you have to go to the nodes camera tab and check to use the camera, only then will the camera output reveal itself in the actual node output.
And yes, you can use nodal control for animating an object in lightwave, save to fbx and the motion will be there on the actual object.

 

[prometheus]

His solar animation has the gas effect like in the movie. If it was straight, and going at a much faster rate that would work!

this case, particles only..and yeah I have some similar solar flares setup, they behave more turbulent though, while his are a bit more realistic I think.
In this case, image above is particle rendering, not fluid rendering, there are many ways to render the particles as well with many settings to get sharper particle density or smoother, or combien with fluid rendering.

 

[Planeguy]

View attachment 152794

this case, particles only..and yeah I have some similar solar flares setup, they behave more turbulent though, while his are a bit more realistic I think.
In this case, image above is particle rendering, not fluid rendering, there are many ways to render the particles as well with many settings to get sharper particle density or smoother, or combien with fluid rendering.

I see. Those particles might actually work, but would need to be more blurred. Do they slow down the sim when you switch to particles or is it still fast

 

[prometheus]

I see. Those particles might actually work, but would need to be more blurred. Do they slow down the sim when you switch to particles or is it still fast

from my early test I could crank up particle amount quite a lot without it being too slow, but then there are various types of particle settings, in the particle tab of the emitter itself, you handle sharpness, particle render type such as velocity aligned, camera aligned.
so you try to push it as much you can in terms of amount of particles and the other "right" settings, and then also post process blurring it, such as with after effects as i showed before, that could yield a very smooth particle density field, while yet some sharpness where particles are more clustered.

I will try and record some demonstration later.
I have to shut down from answering questions for tonight over here, I have to be up early for the dentist tomorrow.

 

[Planeguy]

from my early test I could crank up particle amount quite a lot without it being too slow, but then there are various types of particle settings, in the particle tab of the emitter itself, you handle sharpness, particle render type such as velocity aligned, camera aligned.
so you try to push it as much you can in terms of amount of particles and the other "right" settings, and then also post process blurring it, such as with after effects as i showed before, that could yield a very smooth particle density field, while yet some sharpness where particles are more clustered.

I will try and record some demonstration later.
I have to shut down from answering questions for tonight over here, I have to be up early for the dentist tomorrow.

Cool, please share. Once I get the rtx3000 I'm gonna give embergen a second go and go deeper into learning it.

Godnatt!

 

[Planeguy]

Alright! I'm getting closer to the effect I desired.

Need to add more passes later and apply this to the solar panels, but this is a start finally.

Adding sparks would be next. I think this is something LW can handle pretty well, but might do them in phoenix and then export.

 

[prometheus]

Alright! I'm getting closer to the effect I desired.

Need to add more passes later and apply this to the solar panels, but this is a start finally.

Adding sparks would be next. I think this is something LW can handle pretty well, but might do them in phoenix and then export.

Yes I agree, that is starting to look really good now, a tiny bit more side force repellation I think at the panel and gas collsion region would be nice.
Sparks in lightwave, yes, just use hv tiny particle sprites, with high luminosity, but also consider making them so a post process glow affect slightly could be added, it kind of elevates sparks to look a bit more hot.

 

[Planeguy]

Yes I agree, that is starting to look really good now, a tiny bit more side force repellation I think at the panel and gas collsion region would be nice.
Sparks in lightwave, yes, just use hv tiny particle sprites, with high luminosity, but also consider making them so a post process glow affect slightly could be added, it kind of elevates sparks to look a bit more hot.

Good ideas. I want to get the particles to also look like in Gravity or close to. In the reentry scene, there are lots of small clusters of sparks which then dissipate around the vessel.

Have you been able to do more tests in embergen?