Are the new primitives shapes the Lightwave3D somehow approach to Houdini Heighfields?

I

inakito

New member
Hey there!

I'm testing the amazing Houdini Heighfields tool and I thought the most similar tool we have inside Lightwave is the new primitive parametric shapes, and using surface displacements along with it.

Being so, what are your techniques to generate environments using such tool?

Can those environment be converted to geometry afterwards?

How could be they implemented to look more like the amazing Heightfield Houdini tool?

Anyone also using metamorphic for environments?

I would like people sharing experiences with that tool, technique and workflows...

Thanks in advance!
 
dont use it that much..slow to render.
but you can convert the shapes to a polygon mesh..there are vdb nodes to do that.
 
Here´s how to convert the shape item to a mesh, instructor...Mark Warner.


As for heigth fields, it´s just basicly displacements with noise fractals as the base, this is not much different than just displacing a mesh or a shape item with any of the lightwave fractals.

Houdini however has taken the terrain generation to another level that is more similar to terrain generators like world machine, world creator or Gaea, namely providing
models of erosion, thermal wear, sediment..calculations based on naturalistic scientific research, this is something you can´t do at all within Lightwave.
the rest is just about extracting maps, baking results to maps..and to use as heightfields as different maps.

So to answer the very first question, primitive shapes are really not any approach to resemble Houdini Heightfields.

The primitive shape isn´t needed for a tool that would be implemented as a "heightfield" similar to houdini, you could stick with standard meshes.
Lightwave would have to make terrain generator noises with erosions, thermal wear, sediments and such to get that going, but the question is how good would it be
what would it require, would it really be necessary when we have other dedicated tools, maybe..but Lightwave also have so many other things to adress as priority.
That said..I wouldn´t oppose them implementing it, who wouldn´t want that within one software.

But such tool may need some efficiency and speed as well.

You could try out the free dpont fractal "terrain" (rman collection) which has some interesting terrain noises, it´s a bit tricky to use and a bit slow though, it just expands on the fractal noise sets, but it has no means do to reallistic erosions and the other stuff.

Otherwise..you have to go with Houdini and export maps from it´s generated terrain, or use worldmachine or Gaea perhaps.

The shape item can be useful if you need a lot of detail getting close to it, since the detail will be infinite almost, and you can create some interesting cut outs and shapes that could be tricky with standard displacement.
 
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I would like to see/hear about any production friendly success with item shape as an environment asset of good use.
You can get extreme detail without distortions getting up close, like for mud, or intricate detail patterns etc, but it´s just too slow on a semidecenc cpu to render, which makes it very hard to adjust and tweak noise fractals to your liking when you have to wait many seconds for it to materialize.
You can´t instance on them, nor can you see it in the openGL viewport for motions and camera views instantly.

so..a tool that maybe doesn´t come to it´s right in this time of computer power.
Ogo taiki had full landscapes that was infinite in detail..using I believe a similar approach with volumetric surfaces ..with infinite detail, there as well..slow to render and no openGL viewport.

I would just stick with enough divisions on subpatched polymeshes, use Gaea or Worldmachin to create the naturalistic heightmaps, or fantasy hightmaps if you like that.
 
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Thanks! The only bit I was missing on my setup was the "save transform object"... Unbelievable ahahahhahahahha

That video was really useful.

I'm running some tests and pretty happy so far, nut needs testing a bit more in depth in order to complete understand workflows.

Regarding the new primitive shape and Heightfields, I believe that the technology is the same, basically meshes based in volumes, tho the houdini options are much more in depth, and tailored for terrains, plus adding the incredible simulation for erosion and so.

I'll keep you posted, but I'm finding a super joy working with it.

Thanks prometheus for pointing to that tutorial by the way ;)
 
inakito said:
Regarding the new primitive shape and Heightfields, I believe that the technology is the same, basically meshes based in volumes, tho the houdini options are much more in depth, and tailored for terrains, plus adding the incredible simulation for erosion and so.
Click to expand...
No..not really, houdini starts of with a grid geometry, which you of course can change resolution on at any time, it´s not based on a volume, though you could probably do that as well.
and heightfields has nothing to do with the primitive shape in Lightwave really, apart from that..erosions etc..not possible in Lightwave.

so no..the terrain tools in houdini starts of with Geo Grids, not voxels/volumes...

See image and node levels, unfortunately I haven´t re-installed houdini apprentice after a crash some time ago, will have to do that maybe....

maxresdefault.jpg
 
prometheus said:
No..not really, houdini starts of with a grid geometry, which you of course can change resolution on at any time, it´s not based on a volume, though you could probably do that as well.
and heightfields has nothing to do with the primitive shape in Lightwave really, apart from that..erosions etc..not possible in Lightwave.

so no..the terrain tools in houdini starts of with Geo Grids, not voxels/volumes...

See image and node levels, unfortunately I haven´t re-installed houdini apprentice after a crash some time ago, will have to do that maybe....

maxresdefault.jpg
Click to expand...

That's not right, Houdini Heighfields are based on Volumes, same concept as Lightwave Shape Primitives.

I just checked the Houdini user manual as this is how the Heighfields tool starts its definition:

"This node generates two 2D volume primitives, height and mask, with a given resolution and initial value, to be modified by other terrain nodes.

The height volume is a 2D grid of values representing the distance of the terrain at each point on the map from the ground plane (the values can be negative).

The mask volume can be used as the “mask” input to other terrain tools. It specifies which areas the terrain node’s effect should apply to: where the mask has a value of 0, the node has no effect, and where the mask has a value of 1, the node has full effect. Terrain nodes let you paint masks or generate them from information about the terrain (for example, where shadows fall, or areas below a certain height).

If you wire this node’s output geometry into a terrain node’s first input, it will operate on the height volume. If you wire this node’s output into a terrain node’s “mask” input, it will use the mask volume to scale the effect."

Taking a look at the node editor from your screengrab, those geo nodes are just generating some shapes to be projected into the Heighfield. This is a common technique, but there are many others, and what it is doing is masking or guiding the Heighfields to "grow" shapes from.

If those three nodes weren't connected to the Heightfield Project tool and that node will be off, and you add a Heightfield Noise instead after that, you will still be seeing a change in shape without the need of any geometry... Something similar to displacements...

In some way, and without the simulation part, the new shape primitives + VDB tools are a simplified way of the Heighfields tools in Houdini, and they could be pretty neat to generate certain types of complex meshes like terrains, environments, and so on.
 
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inakito said:
That's not right, Houdini Heighfields are based on Volumes, same concept as Lightwave Shape Primitives.

I just checked the Houdini user manual as this is how the Heighfields tool starts its definition:

"This node generates two 2D volume primitives, height and mask, with a given resolution and initial value, to be modified by other terrain nodes.

The height volume is a 2D grid of values representing the distance of the terrain at each point on the map from the ground plane (the values can be negative).

The mask volume can be used as the “mask” input to other terrain tools. It specifies which areas the terrain node’s effect should apply to: where the mask has a value of 0, the node has no effect, and where the mask has a value of 1, the node has full effect. Terrain nodes let you paint masks or generate them from information about the terrain (for example, where shadows fall, or areas below a certain height).

If you wire this node’s output geometry into a terrain node’s first input, it will operate on the height volume. If you wire this node’s output into a terrain node’s “mask” input, it will use the mask volume to scale the effect."

Taking a look at the node editor from your screengrab, those geo nodes are just generating some shapes to be projected into the Heighfield. This is a common technique, but there are many others, and what it is doing is masking or guiding the Heighfields to "grow" shapes from.

If those three nodes weren't connected to the Heightfield Project tool and that node will be off, and you add a Heightfield Noise instead after that, you will still be seeing a change in shape without the need of any geometry... Something similar to displacements...

In some way, and without the simulation part, the new shape primitives + VDB tools are a simplified way of the Heighfields tools in Houdini, and they could be pretty neat to generate certain types of complex meshes like terrains, environments, and so on.
Click to expand...
You seem to be right, I seem to be wrong..I stand corrected.
Though I still stand by that the primitive shapes isn´t any approach to, or anywhere near houdini heightfields.
 
I suspect both are based on signed distance functions. SDFs are pretty easy to create in nodal if you know the math. The functions themselves are super simple. You can create primates like spheres, rectangles, capsules, rings, springs, and do things like blends and booleans with just a little math. Then you can patch LWs procedurals into it too.


There are also some examples given in the LW manual. https://docs.lightwave3d.com/lw2019/reference/surfacing/node-editor/distance-tools
 
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