World Machine to Lightwave3D works quite well

prometheus

REBORN
no, they basically pulled the plug on the traditional LightWave.
they will either transform it into something "non-LightWave" or sell it,... or let it go...

View attachment 150002

I´m not gonna speculate in that, I will just keep an eye on any development news, and if taking too long time for that..keep going about it with other software.
The only thing I can say that is I think it may be better off sold to another company that has that passion, and that will employ a more transparent policy around the development..wether or not that will be a good solution, depends on what company it is of course.
 

prometheus

REBORN
extraordinary quality, i think only Octane could come close.
Yes..but I just don´t get why nobody is firing it up and provide some tests, doesn´t have to match my stuff initially, start from step one sort of.

I think I could push those cloud renders even more closer to have a proper powder effect, but it may take some time, would be nice to have e-cycles I guess to enhance my GPU render there to allow me to have faster control and easier tweaking time.
I could post process some of that effect as well, to get more close, but trying to get as much as possible in the straight render.

Unfortunately no vdb import to Terragen, I would like to give it a go in that software and it should be even better, it´s planned sort of..but may take a bit of time.
 

Yes..but I just don´t get why nobody is firing it up and provide some tests,
i'm afraid the LightWave community is more laid back because of the situation, perhaps also due to COVID.
in percentage there probably aren't many Octane users that render smoke simulations.
but i've seen Rocket smoke scatter by LWguru, and it looks great. I think it should pull it off.
if people are willing to cash out for Octane because of that... can't say.


also see >

 

Not entirely sure how much volumetrics Ridley Scott and Weta or other studios employed use for the movie Prometheus and the Covenant
for non-cumulus it is easier to get away with so-so quality, i guess that helped also.
i do know Ridley often relies on older simple techniques if he can. (like the ones you mention)

 

Terragen is just too limited for me.
Cool, but limited.
For background clouds, very nice, but also did have a hefty price tag for animated functions as far as i recall.
edit; i see they have HD resolution for animations now, not too bad.
still, a no-go for me personally. can't afford to add yet another 3D package to learn.


 
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prometheus

REBORN
Terragen is just too limited for me.
Cool, but limited.
For background clouds, very nice, but also did have a hefty price tag for animated functions as far as i recall.
edit; i see they have HD resolution for animations now, not too bad.
still, a no-go for me personally. can't afford to add yet another 3D package to learn.
for non-cumulus it is easier to get away with so-so quality, i guess that helped also.
i do know Ridley often relies on older simple techniques if he can. (like the ones you mention)
Sorry if these latest post starts to take over the main thread, should perhaps put this in my own threads.

Yes,,,non cumulus style is easier, since it´s fairly good with just the volumetric item without the need of vdb simulated cumulus clouds, different controls and a bit different in shading since lowering the shadow intensity with that can help out a lot, which is a feature not available for VDB volumes.

Some samples of the plain item volumetric mode (not vdb)

Pretty large ones, above clouds, some changes in scattering shading nodes, and environmental light test, I will cover this a bit more in a more proper thread for clouds later, two volume items, the larger peaks is one of them, but too much small noise, I made a better one not seen here with less noise that fits such raised cloud levels better.
As much as I can´t get to that quality of vdb clouds as with the disney asset and multiple scattering inside of Lightwave, I can not get this quality with these kind of volume items within my other software of choise, not natively, Lino has demonstrated that you can get there with octane, but natively that software is too limited in fractal textures, which is huge part of the looks here, and the fact that it is so much easier to control in Lightwave.

so basicly I would really love to be able to manage all this with the clouds in one software, and not limited to have to choose two depending on cloud types, but there you go.

above clouds various shading.jpg




And Light color difference from using a normal distant sunlight and then the same light but with SK_suncolor as modifier, since the pitch is at that angle for the sun, it often turns more yellow redish, depends on what look you want.



color effect with distant light without and with SK_suncolor modifier..jpg



And ..light direction is a major part depending on how you want the clouds to scatter..
Nevermind the crappy surfacing here, I was just messing around...

sunlight direction and scattering variance.jpg
 

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  • color effect with distant light without and with SK_suncolor modifier..jpg
    color effect with distant light without and with SK_suncolor modifier..jpg
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prometheus

REBORN
i'm afraid the LightWave community is more laid back because of the situation, perhaps also due to COVID.
in percentage there probably aren't many Octane users that render smoke simulations.
but i've seen Rocket smoke scatter by LWguru, and it looks great. I think it should pull it off.
if people are willing to cash out for Octane because of that... can't say.


also see >


yes his smoke sims are great, but he hasn´t put much energy on VDB clouds, still abit different, not sure if he converted those smoke sims to vdb, or how it worked there with octane, but the thing is ..we had this little discussion where he challenged me on cloud making, but then bailed out on it for some reason, he should a slight sample of some uggly vdb sample, and not the disney sample Ivé been covering, and it wasn´t about the actual VDB creation, there are so many ways for that, the tricky part and to focus on was to render the Disney asset properly with good scattering, I provided the link to the disney asset ..which he wanted, but nothing rendered from that.

I think it´s just a matter of lack interest from his part and what time he can spare(unlike us ..he has his business to run) so I understand that, otherwise he should be able to do this nicely with octane I suspect, but he is busy with cars and and other mixed scenarios of intense emotions.

Cash out for octane? his got the money for it, and he has a business to run, and probably calculated that it makes sense for him, for me and you it probably doesn´t.
Others seem to go for CPU only, like cageman, I think he wasn´t fond of Octane..maybe licensing method, not sure that..best to ask him, they have different employments thoug, Cageman employed by a massive company litterally, and Rene his own company.
 
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I think it´s just a matter of lack interest from his part and what time he can spare(unlike us ..he has his business to run) so I understand that, otherwise he should be able to do this nicely with octane I suspect, but he is busy with cars and and other mixed scenarios of intense emotions.
yes, i guess you could do a test run of Octane and VDB in ... i think it has a free version.

but natively that software is too limited in fractal textures,
ah, yeah, a drawback.


 

come to think, you could tweak the clouds in LW2020 by rendering it out as a 32bit image, then color tweak in PhotoShop.
should help a bit.

 

prometheus

REBORN
yes, i guess you could do a test run of Octane and VDB in ... i think it has a free version.

so many quirks with octane that I can´t stand it, I think it has a personal agenda towards me ..haha.
No seriously, I recall testing a standalone version around 2009 and liked the speed of it.
I tried a version for blender, some years ago..but it couldn´t handle the vdb files, just crashed, so I shut that down.

Then I tried to update again for blender when a new version came out, just refused to accept the license..which also is a messy way to license it, I had several mail conversations with it´s support where they tried to solve it, but it didn´t help, Lino Grandi offered to help out more, but right now I don´t have time for it, maybe later late summer..so I am not keen on trying in Lightwave, I don´t think there´s a free version for lightwave though, just blender, for lightwave it must be a limited demo.

but I put my bet on e-cycles or cycle-x to be what I may look in to.
 

yeah, heard Octane installation in [.B.] could be a drag, might have changed. unsure.


I don´t think there´s a free version for lightwave though,
no, no free LW test version.
yes, think LW is kind of a wrestle, unless using Octane for Cumulus etc.
might be good to look into Application X.

-or render in App X and import the rendered compo in LightWave.

 

prometheus

REBORN
come to think, you could tweak the clouds in LW2020 by rendering it out as a 32bit image, then color tweak in PhotoShop.
should help a bit.

Not possible, I don´t own Lw 2020, you forgot that:p
don´t have photoshop nowadays either, using krita for that and I have saved my own favourite filter presets for that, so yes, I´ve shown samples on that here....
two first images blender render, but the second is filtered in krita, and the last the original hyperion render.
And the images I posted previously was probably better in shading that these ones, so I shouldb be able to post process better than below as well...

The difference is that I only used the half resolution vdb file, while hyperion is the full gigabyte large vdb file, and difference in cam perspective etc, I think blender may have an issue with that huge file, wich is of course limiting for pro-work.

As for lightwave rendering of this vdb, not an option with it´s slow render and GI sampling and lack of multiple volume bounce scattering, and I do not have color tone map corrections, one of the few features I liked in 2020, but I do have it in the other software and can adjust nicely there.

 
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I think blender may have an issue with that huge file, which is of course limiting for pro-work.
most likely, [.B.] kinda sucks for large scenes.


come to think, Houdini Indie with Cycles might solve that... Perhaps !

 

prometheus

REBORN
most likely, [.B.] kinda sucks for large scenes.


come to think, Houdini Indie with Cycles might solve that... Perhaps !

Yup, agree on that with blender.
Yup..Houdini is the third choice for me, and I need to spend more time there as well, learning each time new things with vdb and how to work that, I hated the slow mantra renderer, but it got other options now for rendering, I will need to research that and upgrade my apprentice version first before checking indie, but it´s a decent price model I think.

some of the fractal texture handling and volumetrics, I rather actually work with Lightwave, as no1 before even blender or houdini.
for octane, I seem to forget wether or not it could work with native lightwave fractals and especially dponts rman collection, or if it can´t, some people may have answered that but I just forgot it.

and erik, now we have to look at the clock right?
I need to switch back to a more normal rythm again, I was there for some weeks ago but screwed it up recently, but if I jump to the bed right now, maybe a little better order, it´s just this horrible peeping bird that keeps me up also, springbird terror.

so I need to shut down for tonight.
 

it´s just this horrible peeping bird that keeps me up also, springbird terror.
LoL...
sorry for laughing, have one here too, but good windows, so little noise.


Houdini, i like parts of it, but it is One more thing.


alright, goodnight ! dream of clouds.



 

prometheus

REBORN
LoL...
sorry for laughing, have one here too, but good windows, so little noise.


Houdini, i like parts of it, but it is One more thing.


alright, goodnight ! dream of clouds.


yep, that Little terrorist, it´s been haunting me for the most of my life, no matter where I live, there´s one darn tree in which that particular bird has to sit on, and disrespect my
Day rythm and sleeping hours, up with the bird isn´t an option for me, guess I have to find me an apartment in the city though I hate the thought of that, or find a desert to live in.
I love the blackbird though, once the lousy singer stops,( it goes from 3:20-around 6:30 the blackbird takes over with nice soft chirp songs instead, that is just great to wake up to.
I think once we get in to the the middle of the month in June, this terrorist has emptied it´s resources, usually it stops to sing in that period ..so the entire summer isn´t screwed up.
Can´t sleep without having my windows open, almost a must every other day at least ..or I get issues with not able to breath properly.

No sheap, just clouds ..One day I may eventally be uploaded there, if all goes well.
Goodnight Sir Erik.
 
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scallahan1

Still...Absolute Amateur
So I started fiddling with this scene again after pulling it into 2020 version. For the background I used a prebaked Skytracer2 and I'm more happy about the shadows with the 2020 lights but I obviously should start the whole lighting part all over again with the DP lights. Haven't got to them yet. I do wish to try that fractal on the dome thing you mentioned to get some fake cloud shadows but I haven't fully grasped the idea yet. I'll try and get a chance to re-read your explanation and see if I can make it happen. I'm rendering the animation again right now but will shut it down shortly for bed and continue another day perhaps. Here's frame 10 after doing a quick HDR tonemapping in PS.
terrain__010.jpg
 

prometheus

REBORN
So I started fiddling with this scene again after pulling it into 2020 version. For the background I used a prebaked Skytracer2 and I'm more happy about the shadows with the 2020 lights but I obviously should start the whole lighting part all over again with the DP lights. Haven't got to them yet. I do wish to try that fractal on the dome thing you mentioned to get some fake cloud shadows but I haven't fully grasped the idea yet. I'll try and get a chance to re-read your explanation and see if I can make it happen. I'm rendering the animation again right now but will shut it down shortly for bed and continue another day perhaps. Here's frame 10 after doing a quick HDR tonemapping in PS.
View attachment 150074

Terrain looks very nice..the foreground most, High peaks perhaps some more tweaks.
skytracer..meh, skip it, get background image or volumetric clouds.

The fake cloud cast, yes..can be tricky perhaps if you don´t know how exactly.
But I would suggest start with a flat plane before going more advanced with a dome for casting shadows, setup a fairly large flat "groundplane" standard material and add turbulence fractal in the transparency channel, set the contrast of that fractal to 100 percent, and make a decent scale on it, keep transparency value at 0 and work only with that fractal texture channel.
move the plane up in the air of course.
In this cloud transparent plane´s property, set it it unseen by camera, so it´s not visible, it´s only there to serve as a shadow ray casting object to fake the cloud shadows.

More advance would be to use spherical cloud images, on two cloud domes, extract a black and white image from the color cloud image, that will be on a secondary smaller dome inside of the larger Color cloud image mapped dome, and that secondary dome with th black and white image should be unseen by camera as well and some other setting to get it to work, the tricky part is also to create the dome at the best size so it´s not looking distorted either.

But this is a little more advanced, start with a basic flat plane to get shadows in there, and just throw ina nice cloud backdrop in environment instead for starters.
 
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