Will you upgrade/buy when/if Lightwave 2021 comes out?

Will you upgrade?

  • Yes

    Votes: 44 57.1%
  • Probably

    Votes: 12 15.6%
  • Maybe

    Votes: 13 16.9%
  • No

    Votes: 8 10.4%

  • Total voters
    77
  • Poll closed .
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prometheus

OFF TOPIC
Who of you whiners is trying to make useless 3D software out of one of the best 3D software packages in the world?

As if a software could do something for the user is stupid.
that's like blaming a brush for the fact that the painter can't paint.
The error is often in front of the computer!

Well..if it was one of the best 3D software packages, it would have a different standing in the industry of making movies today, and not grunted at by most people, that is not a made up story.

"software could do anything for the user" ? if that is a with reference to that it would be stupid to think that way?
well..then it doesn´t matter what software you use, you could just use blender, or truespace..it´s not about the code it seems??

No..perfect code could be run by idiots, idiotic codes can´t even be run by geniouses, nor should even be operated by geniouses..but don´t worry, geniouses wouldn´t pick idiotic code to do their work...
I am pretty sure a Major part is about the code, just as well as a Major part is about the user, but discarding the former to defend Lightwave, isn´t really ringing a bell of true sincere logic thinking here.

And the time goes, no Lightwave..the clock starts to tick now...tick tock, tick tock...where will you be when Lightwave is on the autopsy table? ( Said with my best Anthony Hopkins voice)
 
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prometheus

OFF TOPIC
Code does not get old. People get old.
Remember that!

Everything get´s old, even desperate love for Old code, believing it still is young and not aging.
If code didn´t get old, nothing new in code would ever been written...the rest is just wishes and fantasies.
 

LightWaveGuru

Active member
not that many rants here these days, way more quiet.
who's fault? i'd say both VizRT/NT and ranters.
anyways... way better now, and time will tell if it improves.
+ i'm not a messiah myself. who is ?

Hi Erikals, nice to hear.
then i can come by here more often without needing a psychiatrist every time afterwards. :)

snip LWGuru
 

LightWaveGuru

Active member
Everything get´s old, even desperate love for Old code, believing it still is young and not aging.
If code didn´t get old, nothing new in code would ever been written...the rest is just wishes and fantasies.

code never gets old.
it only gets supplemented or other code does the job better.
code is zeros and ones.
already forgotten.
and since when do numbers get old?

But what i wanted to say.

if you don't use the old code in such a way that great things come out of it, what do you want with new code?

ROFL :)


NEW means nothing!

A new brush won't help you if you can't draw.

MÄHÄHÄ look i have a new brush. i am better than you. yes but you still can't paint. LOL :)


by the way, i know the same from the audio scene.

people also believe that they can make better music by buying tools.

And such people I regularly make ready with a little old laptop.

Decisive is not the tool but the one who operates it!

This also applies to 3D software!

By the way, I want to hear violin music on an OLD STRADIVARI (that is, on very old code) and not on a new violin.

Art is not about the tools but about the person who uses the tools.
And who does not understand this is wrong here.


snip LWGuru
 

i think we know what he meant, but hey, time for tea everyone, no reason to get loud here.

 

prometheus

OFF TOPIC
code never gets old.
it only gets supplemented or other code does the job better.
code is zeros and ones.
already forgotten.
and since when do numbers get old?


snip LWGuru

As I mentioned before, we have very diametrical perspectives on what art is, how education should be ..and software and approaches.

Numberst started to get old as soon as they were born, whenever that was.
Everything get´s old...it is subject of time, without mercy, you look at the static physics without such reference to a framework where it lives in time and space, no code is real and usefull without that context, and if you put it in to that context..you have to recognize that it actually get´s old.

I´m sure old cars would be considered a new car in the context of being a new old car, but it can never be a new modern car.
Why did you even bother to upgrade to 2020 if it where not for the code being "old" ..Old as in reference to time and and the dynamics needed to follow it´s time.

I see now value of looking at the code as static numbers for the sake of confirming it without all that other context, if you do ...then again, just don´t bother upgrade ever.
 

prometheus

OFF TOPIC
A new brush won't help you if you can't draw.



By the way, I want to hear violin music on an OLD STRADIVARI (that is, on very old code) and not on a new violin.

Art is not about the tools but about the person who uses the tools.

snip LWGuru

a new brush will help you get better quality depending on what art you do, if I paint with a mouse, I would be better off getting a tablet for easier and faster and most likely better paint results, I could try and program each pixel as well to be where it is.
If you have painted as I have, or drawn, you should know all this, that it matters which oil color quality or brand you choose, or brushes, same in photoshop o krita..and of course same with 3D, that is why Lightwave is important for you ..or not? can´t figure out how you can get your logic about only the user matters to have any weight in this, other than a desperate attempt of defending "Old" code.

Every tool you choose matters, just as well as who the artist are, the fact that art is spawned from the artist, doesn´t exclude the importance of what tools you choose to use, and the importance of what tools is inherent to what work you do of course, some may require less or more of the tools.

If not, just pick blender and you will just fine anyway ..regardless of it´s none destructive workflow and sculpting tools.


the music reference, it´s really not much of a context to what we talk about here and code of software, that is just a matter of taste.
I prefer cello...sometimes depending on mood and time.:)
 
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I strongly disagree regarding art is not about the tools, try something simplistic as an interactive boolean in LW without expensive 3rd party addons, horrible node hacks or shawdy unstable volumetric tricks.. you can't! so imedditially you already have one hand tied behind your back.

you will always be at a disadvantage working in a split application environment, there's no negatting this.

If you are jumping ship I would recommended houdini, better job opportunities, better software, better market.
if you are freelance or hobbyist Blender would be a decent substitute once you get over its quirks.

it's interesting watching the tide shift, the poll was rather telling, my issue isn't directly with LW although it has horrible pitfalls, some people might be able to use it for another 10 years and make a decent living, although I would imagine 90% of them prop up LW with Octane as their main render engine and that primarily boils down to lack of development,innovation and future proofing. "common theme here"

let's face it, NT have made cockup after cockup since Core, a string of bad decisions one after another, they don't even acknowledge their market let alone engage with it, and you have the front to bitch about people complaining that LW is falling behind.
it's not just about how good or bad the software is, it's the whole package and NT have made a balls up
 

prometheus

OFF TOPIC
I strongly disagree regarding art is not about the tools, try something simplistic as an interactive boolean in LW without expensive 3rd party addons, horrible node hacks or shawdy unstable volumetric tricks.. you can't! so imedditially you already have one hand tied behind your back.

you will always be at a disadvantage working in a split application environment, there's no negatting this.

If you are jumping ship I would recommended houdini, better job opportunities, better software, better market.
if you are freelance or hobbyist Blender would be a decent substitute once you get over its quirks.

it's interesting watching the tide shift, the poll was rather telling, my issue isn't directly with LW although it has horrible pitfalls, some people might be able to use it for another 10 years and make a decent living, although I would imagine 90% of them prop up LW with Octane as their main render engine and that primarily boils down to lack of development,innovation and future proofing. "common theme here"

let's face it, NT have made cockup after cockup since Core, a string of bad decisions one after another, they don't even acknowledge their market let alone engage with it, and you have the front to bitch about people complaining that LW is falling behind.
it's not just about how good or bad the software is, it's the whole package and NT have made a balls up

You know..I don´t think Rene actually ment it the way it comes across, more that he may want to stress that the User Is the most Important factor, and not the tools..which is quite different really from bluntly just stating the tools doesn´t matter, which makes no logic what so ever why he then would praise lightwave, it just doesn´t make sense does it..other than an attempt to defend a software that isn´t developing in a rapid speed, and not developing transparently, or not given any indication on If it now has reached it´s end cycle or not.

the so Called "whiners" will not give up ..Not even if Rene threatens with a kick in the balls, the only way "whiners" will relax, that is when a new Lightwave version with significant changes are released, and when they get information that it will be released..or at least developed.
Just human nature to taste a bitterness when you invested time and money in a software you used to love, to see the current status.

All that is easy to avoid ..and it´s not gonna be Rene who solves that, the only ones responsible and able to do that is Vizrt/newtek themself, but we already know how they have their policy, ergo..the whining continues.

They still have some trusting customers, but too many not..Including votes that aren´t cast from me anyway.
That´s only a motivation teaser for them at most, they need to find skilled developers, who also actually wan´ts to work according to their agenda, roadmap..which they probably don´t have.
 
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prometheus

OFF TOPIC
If you are jumping ship I would recommended houdini, better job opportunities, better software, better market.
if you are freelance or hobbyist Blender would be a decent substitute once you get over its quirks.
I do not see much houdini in jobrequirements over here, it´s more maya, cinema4d, 3dmax...And also an ever increasing blender skill as merits.
But it´s highly dependent on countries of course.

Lightwave I actually recently saw only one ad with that required skillset after some years, but you also need many other skills.
Then you have single "corps":D like Pär Mostad, who does most of his work with Lightwave and have Swedish clients, and that isn´t under the radar for the general public or swedish ads in general, it´s his own freelancing business.

So there are those doing the work still with Lightwave even in our small country, but the amount ratio of blender jobb ads is like 10-15 per month VS zero for Lightwave, with exception for an occasional month, some year.
 
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Bill Carey

there is no sanctuary....
One wonders why those few people bother to come and rant about useless ancient software that would embarrass them if they ever had to admit they used it. What pleasure do they derive from it? Freud could run a clinic I think. I understand the couple that are clearly here to sell competing products, but some are just here to throw insults before the guillotine falls. Nasty people.
 
I have an " very old" camera see what you think of my site : http://www.michaeldbeckwith.com I hear the same stuff on camera forums, with people saying you need the latest camera. What was the saying "amateurs want new gear, professionals want money, and masters of the craft want good quality light". I think that statement holds up for probably all art disciplines.

I used to code a VERY long time ago, Basic, Assembly, Pascal, Modula 2 and Cobol and relational databases on a "proper" workstation (that is coding if you have ever compiled a relational database on a "propper" workstation in an shell environment). As for Lightwave I am 100% happy with it. I just know that if they do bring GPU rendering that my render times should be cut down, but NOT the quality of my work or my skills. :)
 
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You have some lovely pieces there Michael. As a point of interest, what is the make and model of your "very old" camera and did you use it to take the images on your website (or are they your LW renders ;))?
Hehehe the camera that I took some of the photographs with are with a camera that was released over 12 years ago and is a Canon 7D MK I (Cropped APS-C with not good noise performance by todays standards). Not only that, some of the photographs were taken with a very cheap "kit" lens (entry level) and they are fine. As for Lightwave I have dabbled with it for a while and saw whether either photography or 3d modelling took off and photography took off.

That isn't to say that I don't do 3d modelling in Lightwave, in fact I have come back to it a bit. But I also know the old adage that you need to study 10,000 hours on a subject to become a master. I will say have have studied a fair few thousand hours on photography, but no where near as much on Lightwave. I do know though if I study more time with Lightwave I will become better and it isn't about the latest photography gear or the latest version of a 3D rendering package that counts.

One last thing, they are all photographs on my website taken with a camera ,but if you become a true 3D master you won't be able to tell the difference. :)
 
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Mastoy

Member
It's clear for me that people claiming that LW is one of the best software, and that other software don't do stuff that LW can't do, just never used other software.
Look at a simple example : Lino Grandi. That guy WORKED on LW, he got his hands on the code, and I think no one will say he's not a talented artist.
He moved to another app, and now says he will never go back to LW, because there's just so much he cannot achieve with it.
Pretty clear.
 

Shabazzy

LightWave Fan Boi
Agreed Michael. As with all things in the visual arts, knowing how to produce great work is all about understanding composition, light and shadow and how to work it.

The 7D Mk I is still a very good DSLR that can produce outstanding results when placed in the hands of a pro photographer. My view is that there's too many so called artists who are constantly buying into the mantra of having the latest and greatest because they think it will improve the quality of their work, when in actual fact all it does is serve to limit their problem solving skills.

It's truly saddening to me to see the number of young 3D modelers and animators who have absolutely no clue about fundamental art and animation principles who then wonder why their work isn't working out the way they're visualising. I'm from the old school and I was taught the techniques to employ in order to break problems down to solve them, and when I show some these kids how I achieve certain animated sequences without the need for motion capture, plug-ins or tracking tools they are stunned that such things are possible because all they've ever known is that they have to get the latest tool to solve the problem at hand.

I tell them, that they aren't true artists if they've never learned the fundamentals. And if they continue to rely on tools to do the work for them, they never will be.
 
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