Will you upgrade/buy when/if Lightwave 2021 comes out?

Will you upgrade?

  • Yes

    Votes: 44 57.1%
  • Probably

    Votes: 12 15.6%
  • Maybe

    Votes: 13 16.9%
  • No

    Votes: 8 10.4%

  • Total voters
    77
  • Poll closed .
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prometheus

REBORN
I am now mildy curious...... Does Promethues actually go to B L E N D E R forums? If he does, does he tell all the B L E N D E R users there how awesome Lightwave is and how thigs can be done in Lightwave 3D just as much as they can be done in B L E N D E R. I doubt he has even got an account in a B L E N D E R forum which is kind of amusing.

Prometheus can you give us some links to some B L E N D E R forum posts where he states how awesome Lightwave 3D is and the things that can done better in Lightwave 3D? If he is open minded surely somethings can be done in Lightwave 3D than B L E N D E R and surely he has posted in some B L E N D E R forums to educate them that Lightwave 3D is better in this case. Please show us these postings.

I haven´t been much to the blender forums lately, partly because I think the atmosphere been too rude, worse than any of your complaints of someone mentioning blender in here.

you can go there by yourself, google lightwave in a search string after the blender community site string and you should get everything mentioned about lightwave
..should have know and followed me in there, then you would have known that I am known as the foremost defender, the knight of all knights to defend lightwave over there by some deluded hardcore users in that forum, it´s just delusions just as it is delusions that I am a knight with the blender mark on the shield in here.

but sure..when I get the time you can get the links to where I am spit on, stamped on for mentioning how well Lightwave works on some areas, though some of the responses or threads have been removed by blenderartists , so where they spew out insults and things like that has been removed often, and moderators have actaully taken a point of view from my stand point, feel free to discuss Lightwave they said, but despite that and that I didn´t try to bash on blender, just for each function it does well or not I give praise to it.

It´s just that people can´t let go of the blender VD lightwave soldier thing and see it for what it is.



here´s one, but there is more and some of it you still can´t see due to moderators have removed attacks where they spew out how much I am the foremost Lightwave soldier there is.
some former lightwavers go easy on me, some doesn´t or many that is just hardcore blender users.

 

prometheus

REBORN
And a single post where I answer...with a lot of positives about Lightwave..when it should be credited and not just becasuse I love lightwave for some mysterious unknow non attributed fact.

MI65Member
anon71893420
Sep 2020

That is not the truth, you are ignorant of the fact that it is still used and have been used for some movies up till today and tv shows, the fact that it isn´t as popular doesn´t change that.
Your statement is pure arrogance based on the background that you hate that company, and probably the software.
Lightwave still does handle that kind of volumetrics better than blender with reference to noise based only clouds, Lightwave has a much much larger set of specially designed fractals to choose from, and it is way easier to set up and get going with that stuff.
But what´s the interest of that from you, you never use that and have no need for it.
and I may return to work on that later, but it depends on development.
One of the largest game companies in the world uses Lightwave in their pipeline for cinematics.
Massive/Ubisoft
David ridlen uses it frequently and did some vfx in a movie that won an oscar in 2019, what you think of the kind of movie or kind of effects is up to you, but there are more examples.
Jet Cooper uses Lightwave constantly still up till this day for movie props, the producers…if necessary buys in licenses for what he needs in terms of software.
I would urge you to shut down your first steps towards personal mockery or you will just bring this thread up to a flame war again, and it´s quite unnecessary if you have the smartness to understand that I am not happy with how Newtk/vizr is communicating and I also find that I need to change direction.
So you could just relax and chime in with me where we agree, or continue to have your peculiar feelings and mock comments towards me here on the forums and go about that in some kind of war and see what that leads us here in the forums.
What ever I have said before as you somehow perceive me as a Newtek defender…that has not been any contradiction to any of that…not for what it pertained within that period.
 

prometheus

REBORN
Last timed I checked even the FBX camera exported from LW3D got fucked up when I tried to load it into Blender. But it works pixel perfect with both C4D and Maya.

by the way, just checked it again and not much luck with fbx, I think this response should be in the other 1001 ways to use lightwave and blender though, and a pipeline thread.
Tried with alembic instead, though it would require to export objects separately, but using a scale of 0.01 brings in the camera matching to 100% pixel perfect I think after checking the rendered images.

don´t fbx issues sound better as scr..ed up than fu..ed up? maybe in essence it´s just the same thing:D
I think there are addon exporters to pay for, but I think it´s a bit odd If there is not trick or free fbx addon that handle this as it should.
 

wingzeta

Member
There was once a guy who loved volvos and the volvo repair forum. Over time, volvo didn't keep up with the pace of innovation, and the guy liked what toyota had to offer. He still prefered the volvo in some ways, but toyota was just more advanced and capable, so that became his interest. The thing was, the volvo repair forum was his favorite hangout. His interests had moved on to toyota, but not to the toyota repair forum. It was only practical. Toyota was superior in so many ways. In the volvo repair forum, where people who repair volvos go for answers, he was more interested in talking about his new love, toyotas. He would help them by spreading the word about toyota. Maybe they just didn't know about toyota. His answer to almost every question someone asked about volvos, was to get a toyota. If he had offered a volvo solution and sometimes mentioned or compared it to how toyotas work, or suggested a toyota might be a good companion to a volvo, every now and then, it wouldn't clutter up the volvo forum, and no one would even notice. Over time however, toyota became his answer to every volvo question. It seemed strange to him that people wanted outdated inefficient volvo information on the volvo repair forum, when toyota had all the answers. His interests had moved on from volvo, but not from the volvo repair forum. That was his hangout. Why weren't everyone's interests the same as his? He even was magnanimous enough to mention toyota had some shortcomings of its own, so why didn't everyone understand? ;)
 

prometheus

REBORN
There was once a guy who loved volvos and the volvo repair forum. Over time, volvo didn't keep up with the pace of innovation, and the guy liked what toyota had to offer. He still prefered the volvo in some ways, but toyota was just more advanced and capable, so that became his interest. The thing was, the volvo repair forum was his favorite hangout. His interests had moved on to toyota, but not to the toyota repair forum. It was only practical. Toyota was superior in so many ways. In the volvo repair forum, where people who repair volvos go for answers, he was more interested in talking about his new love, toyotas. He would help them by spreading the word about toyota. Maybe they just didn't know about toyota. His answer to almost every question someone asked about volvos, was to get a toyota. If he had offered a volvo solution and sometimes mentioned or compared it to how toyotas work, or suggested a toyota might be a good companion to a volvo, every now and then, it wouldn't clutter up the volvo forum, and no one would even notice. Over time however, toyota became his answer to every volvo question. It seemed strange to him that people wanted outdated inefficient volvo information on the volvo repair forum, when toyota had all the answers. His interests had moved on from volvo, but not from the volvo repair forum. That was his hangout. Why weren't everyone's interests the same as his? He even was magnanimous enough to mention toyota had some shortcomings of its own, so why didn't everyone understand?


Hate cars, have no interest in cars, love Lightwave and blender, have interest in that and how they work or not work, what to choose when there are issues.
Fits better in the threads to talk about that than cars.
Perhaps volvo and other cars could fit in the General discussion, there is such a section where I talk off topic from any graphics, such as tributes to those passing away, or space etc.

So if you don´t stop talk about cars in this thread..I will start the ferris wheel again with blender forces behind it.😈
 
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prometheus

REBORN
Prometheus can you give us some links to some B L E N D E R forum posts where he states how awesome Lightwave 3D is and the things that can done better in Lightwave 3D?

And here is a little more ..where that forums moderator tries to urge blender users to respect any Lightwave user coming there and talks about how the tools work..
but isn´t this enough of me to post here now? and can we get back to talk about why the reasons are for not upgrading..or upgrading, which inevitable will have some reference to other software.

I could spend time trying to find more there ..more specificly where I praise lightwave..but what´s the point, I don´t have to defend myself on this issue really, and it´s there for you to analyze and form perhaps a new opinion than the one you got now.

I don´t think it is popular from Sbowies point of view to post Quotes from other forums like this either, but you asked for some of that.

FinalBarrageModerator
Sep 2020

Alright time to conclude.
I’ve deleted comments that serve no purpose other than to mock, needless i must say.
@anon71893420 It seems like you have a very strong dislike towards Lightwave, which is completely fine. But it also seems like you’ve got a strong dislike towards Lightwave users, this is not okay.
Can you just let other users use what they like without harassing them? How dead or alive a program is, is frankly irrelevant. A program is just a tool for an artist to do their job, what tool they use is up to them.
And just in general guys, drop the jabs, it just turns into unnecessary fights…

Prometheus/65: There´s one sad thing though…and that is that the blender user community (at least from many users I have come across)
They seem to have just an amazing amount of low level communication skills (ala kindergarten)…fueled with hate towards Any lw user that doesn´t properly agree with them on the situation)

This is not only the case with Lightwave, but most minorities. The UPBGE community also gets a lot of hate in general, for most of the same reasons.
This is also something we’re actively trying to combat, so if you see this type picking, then please flag it, or tag us with @moderators so we can get involved before the thread escalates. Had i been made aware of this thread sooner then i’d gotten involved nearly at the start of the thread.
 

wingzeta

Member
Hate cars, have no interest in cars, love Lightwave and blender, have interest in that and how they work or not work, what to choose when there are issues.
Fits better in the threads to talk about that than cars.
Perhaps volvo and other cars could fit in the General discussion, there is such a section where I talk off topic from any graphics, such as tributes to those passing away, or space etc.

So if you don´t stop talk about cars in this thread..I will start the ferris wheel again with blender forces behind it.😈
Well I'm not actually talking about cars am I? And, considering every discussion turns into a "toyota" discussion around here, it makes no difference which topic the exchange takes place under anymore. That is kind of the point.

Here's another one for you. People who want to make candles go to the candle making forum. They want to figure out a way to make their candle burn longer, or smell better, or burn brighter. There is a guy who answers every question with "Get a flashlight." Or "Get some extra batteries for your flashlight" "Yes the light from a candle is more pleasant, but it can be blown out by the wind." The people on the candle forum know about flashlights, batteries and wind. If you mention a flashlight is a good backup, or alternative, or can help you find your matches in the dark, that is helpful. Beyond that it is less than helpful to constantly bring up flashlights on the candle forum.

How about Lightwave is a lovely bicycle, and blender is an ugly motorcycle, and Houdini is a speederbike with no handlebars?
 
Just going back to Lightwave 3D in this Lightwave 3D forum, has anyone any new information or new rumours on the possible launch of Lightwave 3D 2021? Anything new in past few weeks from the internet in general?
 

prometheus

REBORN
Well I'm not actually talking about cars am I? And, considering every discussion turns into a "toyota" discussion around here, it makes no difference which topic the exchange takes place under anymore. That is kind of the point.

Here's another one for you. People who want to make candles go to the candle making forum. They want to figure out a way to make their candle burn longer, or smell better, or burn brighter. There is a guy who answers every question with "Get a flashlight." Or "Get some extra batteries for your flashlight" "Yes the light from a candle is more pleasant, but it can be blown out by the wind." The people on the candle forum know about flashlights, batteries and wind. If you mention a flashlight is a good backup, or alternative, or can help you find your matches in the dark, that is helpful. Beyond that it is less than helpful to constantly bring up flashlights on the candle forum.

How about Lightwave is a lovely bicycle, and blender is an ugly motorcycle, and Houdini is a speederbike with no handlebars?

Do you have to use a completely different class for that?
it´s by no means at all equivalent to software comparison where software comparison it inevitable and in many cases useful when talking about upgrading..and the reasons therefore.

If you refer to coFfee arguments and complaints between brands etc and cars, etc..and compare that with 3D related software in a 3D thread..then I think you are stretching your analogy to far really, just to enforce a point that you can´t discuss anything else.

Now..for example, How would the case of someone argueing to get a flashlight instead of making candles be equivalent to a case of a description where Lightwaves cpu needs to be gpu, and a ellaboration on that with proof of the GPU doing the renders faster, by referencing to octane or blender?

It´s not appliable at all, there´s more context and detail to such 3D discussion than you ever can extract from that simplifed and completly different class case reference of a flashlight and candlemaking argument, it just doesnt work.
 
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Meshbuilder

Pär Mostad
Just going back to Lightwave 3D in this Lightwave 3D forum, has anyone any new information or new rumours on the possible launch of Lightwave 3D 2021? Anything new in past few weeks from the internet in general?
There was some rumor recently that there are some discussions again about selling LightWave to another company. But other than that, nothing what I know of.

All people that have left say that there is no one working on it. Of course, they can not know if Vizrt have decided to put a new team on it because they are not on the inside anymore, but it seems highly unlikely.

No bug fixes has been released since July 15 and the support doesn't answer bug reports anymore. And if you got an answer it's just an auto reply.
There is no sign of a team or person who is looking at the bugs and asking you about it like before. Maybe they collect info about bugs still, but we don't know. They don't tell us what "supporting Lightwave" really means.

The most honest thing would to tell their customers. Something like:
"We have paused the development of LightWave until we know what to do with it. We will host it, you can still buy it, download it but we will not update it as the situation is right now. We will not comment on bug repports and support issue but we will collect them to when/if we decide to move forward with LW. For now, 2020.0.2 is the latest version of LightWave we can offer."

But then they would probably loose the few sells they still get.
 

Meshbuilder

Pär Mostad
this has got to be the most dysfunctional "community" in existence.
No wonder. Users and non-users discuss a software that no one knows if it has been discontinued. In a forum run by a company that no longer owns and decides what to do with the software. And the new owners talks even less with its customers than the old company.
Good times! ☺️

At least it's more fun to talk about than the pandemic.
 

Mastoy

Member
It seems that the argument about other software can be condensed into one question : are you a hobbyist or a professionnal ?
- Hobbyist : you use LW because you have fun using it. You chose it for whatever reason and you're interested in doing things with it.
- Professionnal : you have clients to satisfy, you need the fastest, most efficient way to get things done. LW is unfortunaltely not efficient enough anymore.
 

prometheus

REBORN
It seems that the argument about other software can be condensed into one question : are you a hobbyist or a professionnal ?
- Hobbyist : you use LW because you have fun using it. You chose it for whatever reason and you're interested in doing things with it.
- Professionnal : you have clients to satisfy, you need the fastest, most efficient way to get things done. LW is unfortunaltely not efficient enough anymore.

Generally....quite often, but you are drawing it all with one comb..even though some is bald and it´s not necessary, chris jones isn´t just hobbyist, nor Lino Grandi..and many more there if you check the blender forums.

It´s however more to it than just cost, You have to consider I´ve been payin for lightwave as long as it was nice to work with and none other could deliver what I liked about it..
and that despite me being foremost hobbyist, with an exception during 2009-2012 where I used it at work.

But even after that I payed for it up to 2019..and it had some interesting things showing up with vdb and a new render, but it´s the period of development after that and what it lacks and what never seems to get there that is the question Foremost before even relating to hobby cost vs proffessional costs, and it also includes the philosopy of not even honestly and with confidence go out at state.."yes we are developing Lightwave"

The blog statement is just as slippery as some of our Swedish politicians when they want to cover their tracks or keep alternatives open.
And of course lately, all the developers gone it seems, isn´t putting trust in to a ...will you upgrade.
 

prometheus

REBORN
The most honest thing would to tell their customers. Something like:
"We have paused the development of LightWave until we know what to do with it. We will host it, you can still buy it, download it but we will not update it as the situation is right now. We will not comment on bug repports and support issue but we will collect them to when/if we decide to move forward with LW. For now, 2020.0.2 is the latest version of LightWave we can offer."

But then they would probably loose the few sells they still get.

I agree completely with this, the question is as you conclude in the last sentence, how much do they loose on it..if that is to be the case that is.
They would have to balance in what it means to be honest here, and not honest..(as just hiding and avoiding a straight answer)

Sure they could risc a few sales, personally I think it will still come up after a while If they do not develop it..and in such case the amount of fury and disrespect for both Newtek and vizrt will just take on enourmous proportions in the end, probably hurting vizrt other products as well in terms of customer trust and future products..and this to a cost far more than what they would loose out on eventual sales for whatever they have left for lightwave as just continue to sell but not developed.

But it´s their show to call the shot´s ..if they feel ok with all that, they should continue with it, It´s their business..and those who do not like it can of course look in to something else.
 
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