Who funds and supports Blender?

fashion

Member
...reason I ask is so many heap praise on Blender while dissing the dirt on Lightwave and Vizrt.

While Blender is hairled as the 'free' people's alternative, Lightwave is condemend as this tawdy overpriced software.

Well folks, don't want to burst your illusion, but Blender is well-funded by some pretty big players in the Tech industry including Apple, Adobe, Microsoft and Intel.

ie -





...so begs the question - what in reality is Blender?

Is it truly a 'free' benign application available to all? Or is it stacked and backed by huge corporate donors whilch enable it to gain an unfair advantage over its rivals? Perhaps anti-competition agencies in various countries should look into this.

Blender seems akin to Uber - that ride sharing company which claims it's not making a profit year after year, but its executives rake in millions in salaries and benefits.

It's little wonder that companies like Lightwave are struggling. Perhaps people might ask themselves what ulterior motives thise larger corporations have in funding Blender.

Now I'm begnning to realize why Blender is becoming such a professional product, It isn't your everyday freeware created and maintained by a guy in his basement or garage. They've got an army or highly professional programmers and support staff writing code for them and maintaining their product roud the clock.

Blender aint yer typical freeware although it does its best to masquerad around one.
And seems to fool 98% of you that it is.

Perhaps the playing field needs to be leveled somewhat where the smaller software companies like Lightwave get a subsidy too. Anyways, just some thoughts.
 
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TheLexx

Well-known member
Tim Jenison achieved plenty and so did Ton Roosendaal, but I do have to say Blender is not masquerading as freeware - it really is free...
 

fashion

Member
Tim Jenison achieved plenty and so did Ton Roosendaal, but I do have to say Blender is not masquerading as freeware - it really is free... :)

Oh sure, it's free.

But it is not an app maintained by hobbyists or a single guy working out of his garage out of a labor of love,

It is a professional software masquerading around as freeware with massive corporate subsidies ooded and maintained by salaried programmers.
 

TheLexx

Well-known member
Overt promotion of Blender is kinda frowned upon here, which is perfectly reasonable considering this is a Lightwave forum, but on the other hand the thread possibly implies some sort of conspiracy by Apple, Intel and Adobe and Blender to take down poor Lightwave and others, but it isn't really like that.... I'll let the "villain" speak for himself...

 

fashion

Member
Overt promotion of Blender is kinda frowned upon here, which is perfectly reasonable considering this is a Lightwave forum, but on the other hand the thread possibly implies some sort of conspiracy by Apple, Intel and Adobe and Blender to take down poor Lightwave and others, but it isn't really like that.... I'll let the man speak for himself...

Yeah, I've met him.

I knew him when he didn't have the backing of these large corporations and he was giving the software away on a CD.

I still have those CD's.

But it was much different back then.

He really was a single guy or a couple of guys producing freeware.

Profit was not the ulterior motive.

But when the Big Players enter the picture start funding them providing them with salaried programmers and they're charging for all these plug ins - then it is a professional app.
 
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TheLexx

Well-known member
I would perhaps describe it as more a business model, but those corps don't get to own Blender in any way - they calculated they couldn't afford to ignore it. To the user it is not a professional app, in the sense they don't have to buy it. No serial number needed, can be run from a memory stick, completely portable, cross platfrom, downolad as many as one wants... all free to the user. Compare to, say, Autodesk..

The reason I am emphasising Blender is free is because it is surely that quality which means the average Blender user does not know what LW is capable of...and doesn't want to know either, and once a software gets a headstart like that, then.... My own affinity is towards Lightwave though.. Sorry to labour this, I'll possibly butt out for a bit to allow others to chime their views. :)
 
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Shabazzy

LightWave Fan Boi
Overt promotion of Blender is kinda frowned upon here, which is perfectly reasonable considering this is a Lightwave forum...

Absolutely.

This is a somewhat problematic topic to have on the LightWave forums, since it's one that has been known to devolve into an "All Things Blender" conversation. And as such can, and has, caused a lot of arguments and bad behaviour amongst forum members.

The general consensus is that Blender focused topics should really be placed on the Blender forum or in the 1001 ways to use lw and blender together thread.

@fashion - I personally am not comfortable with the possibility that the LightWave forums can become overrun with Blender topics (which at least one member, who is a very prolific poster and who shall remain nameless, has been known to do) and would ask that in future you at least think very carefully about whether the topic you have in mind is appropriate for the LightWave forums, as well as where such a topic should best be posted.

I understand why you have posted this topic, but I really don't think it's a topic that is particularly helpful to LightWave or it's users. There's a real danger of it becoming a Blender bashing vs Blender promoting conversation. And I for one really don't visit and contribute to these forums to read about Blender.
 

prometheus

REBORN
blenders funding by big companies..doesnt make it ..less free.
it ( the core) gets no revenue from any paying customer, and you can code your own builds as you like...

it is the other way around with lightwave..
lightwave isn' funded by any external big company..it gets revenue from paying customers (those that are left that is)
You are not allowed to build your own full core build of lightwave.

the other major companies investing..not surprising..they see the power of it..the vast amount of people it can reach when the main core is free..the "business" model of a huge market where focused targeted assets,plugins and tutorials sustain developers and teachers.

it also empowers kids...youngsters..and those with lesser purse.
in that way it empowers people on a far vaster range of various state than lightwave ever will.
it taps in to the huge network of people that isn't limited by money or age.

Power to the people.

I can chime in on that this thread should be in another section.

but do not listen to as someone said ..who's name we shall not name here..it should not belong in a section that is about using blender and lightwave together..that would be very misplaced as well...the topic yoy started is questions about a specific softwares funding..not how to use it with lightwave.

general discussion maybe.
and as we all should know by now..but apparently some dudes don't..we are in fact allowed to talk about other software in these forums..it could be 3dmax..modo..houdini..maya..photoshop..rhino..you name it..
as long it's intended purpose isn't speficly marketing competitive products.
 
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prometheus

REBORN
@fashion ..

you got it a bit wrong..you mentioned blender as freeware..it's not..it is open source.

designspark is kind of freeware..not open source..the cost for you as a user to use it's main core is however the same..Nada.
the way you can develop and code them by yourself is in crucial
.. quite different.
 

fashion

Member
Absolutely.

This is a somewhat problematic topic to have on the LightWave forums, since it's one that has been known to devolve into an "All Things Blender" conversation. And as such can, and has, caused a lot of arguments and bad behaviour amongst forum members.

The general consensus is that Blender focused topics should really be placed on the Blender forum or in the 1001 ways to use lw and blender together thread.

@fashion - I personally am not comfortable with the possibility that the LightWave forums can become overrun with Blender topics (which at least one member, who is a very prolific poster and who shall remain nameless, has been known to do) and would ask that in future you at least think very carefully about whether the topic you have in mind is appropriate for the LightWave forums, as well as where such a topic should best be posted.

I understand why you have posted this topic, but I really don't think it's a topic that is particularly helpful to LightWave or it's users. There's a real danger of it becoming a Blender bashing vs Blender promoting conversation. And I for one really don't visit and contribute to these forums to read about Blender.

Sorry.

I just couldn't hlep but remakr about this situation, and it is relevant to a struggling software like Lightwave. I feel that it is having to compete on an uneven playing field.

And the relationship of this with other softwares - is that if Lightwave goes under because it can no longer compete, what about the others? like Modo? and Houdini? Blender, backed by the largest tech corporations might just bury them too. Like what Amazon has done to retail businesses the world over.

The other thing - Lightwave is criticized for charging too much, and yet Microsoft charges $500 or $600 for Office Professional and Apple at least that much for its Final Cut Suite. And both make billions in profits from their software products. And then Lightwave is portrayed as being 'greedy' Gimme a break.
 

prometheus

REBORN
Sorry.

I just couldn't hlep but remakr about this situation, and it is relevant to a struggling software like Lightwave. I feel that it is having to compete on an uneven playing field.

And the relationship of this with other softwares - is that if Lightwave goes under because it can no longer compete, what about the others? like Modo? and Houdini? Blender, backed by the largest tech corporations might just bury them too. Like what Amazon has done to retail businesses the world over.

The other thing - Lightwave is criticized for charging too much, and yet Microsoft charges $500 or $600 for Office Professional and Apple at least that much for its Final Cut Suite. And both make billions in profits from their software products. And then Lightwave is portrayed as being 'greedy' Gimme a break.

I really dont condemn lightwave for its pricing..sure I wouldnt mind it being cheaper..but I do condemn the management..and sorry to say..the developers not able to fulfill what should have been implemented..but condemn is a harsch word..its their choice..as well as mine to not purchase it if its not satisfying me.

then each one of us can reflect and do the math of how their philosophy of not discussing lightwave is working for them...and here I kind of think it is motivated to burst out ala charlton heston when seeing the ruins of a familiar monument.

there is other tools more expensive than lightwave..seemingly doing better currently..the kinky one is only blender.
 

fashion

Member
And yet Prometheus, an argument can be made that Blender is actually 'dumping' its product.

Charging nothing for a product that given its massive subsidies and for profit plugins, should be subject to either taxes or be forced to sell their product.

BTW, this is not the first time Big Tech has been called out.

didn't the EU get after them tryig to dodge taxes - ie Apple?
 

prometheus

REBORN
@fashion

ohh..I dont go in to any state or worldwide regulating thoughts.

how a software can empower people is a different matter though..something lightwave was good at in a limited time...but the other "politics"..
not at this hour a few minutes before sleep...And I dont see me having the interest later on either, just interested in working with tools I like for a good price...and easy to use..simple as that.

since its more easier on the ears for the newtek forums and its users..
I think we could talk about..
Who funds and support Lightwave?

got to quit now..too many spelling errors trying to press the right buttons with too large fingers on my mobile.

Goodnight fashion
 
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raymondtrace

Founding member
I fund and support Blender. However, I come to this forum to discuss the use of LightWave.

I'm certainly not suggesting that you're wasting precious time stolen from all our finite lifetimes to discuss software funding. You might find greater joy by discussing real things.

The amount of money granted by the companies you cite is not extraordinary. The Blender website prominently displays their names as corporate donors. These donating companies are simply advertising. These companies did not need to sign up as corporate donors. They could have donated the same amount and asked that their donation was kept out of a spotlight.
 

Shabazzy

LightWave Fan Boi
Sorry.

I just couldn't hlep but remakr about this situation, and it is relevant to a struggling software like Lightwave. I feel that it is having to compete on an uneven playing field.

And the relationship of this with other softwares - is that if Lightwave goes under because it can no longer compete, what about the others? like Modo? and Houdini? Blender, backed by the largest tech corporations might just bury them too. Like what Amazon has done to retail businesses the world over.

The other thing - Lightwave is criticized for charging too much, and yet Microsoft charges $500 or $600 for Office Professional and Apple at least that much for its Final Cut Suite. And both make billions in profits from their software products. And then Lightwave is portrayed as being 'greedy' Gimme a break.

And I get that, but what I don't get is what you hope to accomplish with this topic?

I genuinely cannot see how this subject in any way benefits LightWave 3D or its users.

But I can see how this topic is going to end up being a troll-fest and I really don't what to see that happening on these forums.... yet again.
 

kyuzo

Member
I was a Lightwave user for almost twenty years, and it was my main software for my job.
I still like Lightwave, and would prefer to continue using Lightwave, however there was no benefit to me upgrading to LW2020 as I am primarily a modeler, and after an issue with graphics cards discussed on here (even though a workaround was identified by users), I became aware that I couldn't not learn another package just in case an update of either Windows or drivers suddenly stopped it from running. I didn't want to have to learn another software package, but I currently have no confidence that if LW2019 suddenly stopped working that VizRT support would get a bugfix or patch in place.

I'm not knocking Lightwave. I'm knocking the company which currently owns Lightwave.
 
The companies that contribute to Blender don't own any of Blender- at best they might get a certain percentage of time for a developer to work on a specific feature that is important to their organization but they have no sway over how Blender is run or managed. It also looks good for a copmany to support open source projects (probably gets them a tax write off as well). There is also no motivation for them to 'destroy competitors'. That's really reading the whole situation wrong.
But the bottom line is that Blender is free because others pay for it. Some 3,000 or so users contribute monthly to the Blender development fund in addition to the companies who become donors and that's how they pay Blender developers and initiatives. But it's all voluntary. I contribute to it each month- because I like to support development that is useful to me. The big distinction to me in how Blender is different is how that money is used. 100% of the money that goes into Blender is making the software better- its not about making profits and CEO bonuses. Ton himself takes a salary of about 70k a year which is in line with what some of the top developers at Blender make. They take in more money, they hire more developers or hire temporary developers for limited time grants. There is no 'profit' to tax.

Blender had nothing to do with LightWave's demise. Lightwave has been on the downward in terms of users and market share probably since CORE happened. Blender has only really gained any kind of foot hold since 2.8 was released((2019) and they revamped a lot of the program. If you want to look at what happened to Lightwave, you only have to look as far as the video companies who owned it who had no interest whatsoever in a 3D app- not investing in it, not marketing it and not working with the studios who might have adopted it. The same thing is happening currently with Foundry and Modo.
 

SBowie

'the write stuff'
Just as some helpful information: As some have noted, this is primarily a forum about LW for its users. That being said, to the extent that there may be some interesting in financial models generally related to the industry, there is no real objection - provided the discussion is civil, and does not meander off into obvious promotion, provocation, or other inappropriate matters.

So, provided I am not inundated with complaints, I'm not likely to invoke knee-jerk moderation.
 

Rayek

Well-known member
@fashion I realize you are a new user of LightWave. I am unsure how familiar you are with LightWave's past 15 years of history and how it was unfortunately (mis)managed and how uncommunicative Newtek often was. Personally I would have never made the switch to other software if it had not been for that. It had nothing to do with money. VizRT acquiring Newtek seems to have been the last nail in LightWave's coffin.

Consider why VizRT/Newtek's management feel it is ethical to continue to sell LightWave without offering even the smallest level of support other than processing your payment. No-one here dislikes LightWave (rather the opposite!). But everyone here dislikes how LightWave was/is managed by VizRT and Newtek. And how it was allowed to fall behind even when it was one of the main DCCs used in broadcast by many production houses no so very long ago.

PS I do agree with you that reality is by definition unfair. ;)

As for Blender's development, here is one developer's comment that, I feel, explains the mindset of why developers would work and share their work for free:


My kids have asked me "wait, so you do all this work for Blender and you don't get money for it?!" and I was "darn right! this means they can't tell me what not to do!". It's fun! That's it!
 
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