Waterproof boat?

grafyx

New member
Hi,

I am sure there's some way to do this, but I have no idea where to start.

I have an open topped rowing boat and an ocean, which I want to animate.

How do I stop the water 'filling' the boat? As with all 3D objects, where the boat and the water intersect, the water surface just continues right through the boat. Do I need to make the boat into some sort of collision object or something like that?

(I have several versions of LightWave 2018 and also 11.6, I'm happy to use whatever version if one is easier than another).

Also can anyone recommend any good tutorials that will take me from the old surfacing methods I am familiar with to using node surfaces. I am completely baffled by nodes. (I have followed a number of tutorials so far that tell me what I should create and what I should connect to what, but most of them don't explain WHY I should do that! So Ineed to understand the logic of creating a surface).

Thanks!
 

Markc

ack ack
I assume your water is polygonal?
You are thinking in the realms of realflow, where you create a water simulation.

Maybe have a read here:

 
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prometheus

OFF TOPIC
There are ways with clothfx, and also displacement maps, and there is also with other None lightwave tools that would be more efficient and easier to setup.
That´s foremost geometry displacement, or dynamic collisions on it with clothfx, or bullet softbody, but bullet softbody isn´t as nice for water as clothfx, downside may be calculation times, if using clever displacement setups, you can avoid that though.

then there is liquid particles remeshed, might work with 2018-2019 and the vdb tools, but will be very slow to work with, you may find something by checking lw gurus youtube pages, but it´s heavy on calculation, same here, there are other none lightwave tools at your disposal that may work better, but if you want or have to stay in Lightwave only..no need to go in to that, there is too many users here with anti-Lightwave phobia around here, so you would have to take that with me on personal messaging if you are interested in what I think would be more effective to use, and I can from there point you to some tutorials, but it´s not Lightwave.




And Lightwave Guru..lot of liquids...

Dark cheif also have a liquid system, but commercial...
 
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grafyx

New member
I assume your water is polygonal?
You are thinking in the realms of realflow, where you create a water simulation.

Maybe have a read here:

Yes - the ocean is a finely subdivided plane of polygons.

Thanks for your suggestion, I will take that onboard. (No pun intended!) :)
 

grafyx

New member
There are ways with clothfx, and also displacement maps, and there is also with other None lightwave tools that would be more efficient and easier to setup.
That´s foremost geometry displacement, or dynamic collisions on it with clothfx, or bullet softbody, but bullet softbody isn´t as nice for water as clothfx, downside may be calculation times, if using clever displacement setups, you can avoid that though.

then there is liquid particles remeshed, might work with 2018-2019 and the vdb tools, but will be very slow to work with, you may find something by checking lw gurus youtube pages, but it´s heavy on calculation, same here, there are other none lightwave tools at your disposal that may work better, but if you want or have to stay in Lightwave only..no need to go in to that, there is too many users here with anti-Lightwave phobia around here, so you would have to take that with me on personal messaging if you are interested in what I think would be more effective to use, and I can from there point you to some tutorials, but it´s not Lightwave.




And Lightwave Guru..lot of liquids...

Dark cheif also have a liquid system, but commercial...
Thank you, I will look at LightWave guru.

I would prefer to find a usable solution within LightWave for this if possible. I'm only doing this for myself, and I've also just retired, so I don't have much of an income now for other purchases. But on the positive side, I do have more time to try to learn all the stuff I know nothing about at this stage!.

It might be all too difficult for me, though - my aging brain has struggled with the upgrade from 11.6 to 2018 in so many ways, and I have no idea about clothfx or bullet stuff - I have a vague idea what they are, but not a clue where to start!! And I already have that conundrum of making the rowing boat respond to the waves - can hardly believe that is still difficult after all these years. But I have seen mentions elsewhere that clothfx might help there too.
 

Axis3d

Lightwave User Since 1990
Depending on how much "chop" is in the water, you could try parenting a clip map (a silhouette of the boat hull) to the rowboat. This clip map would be applied to the water surface and it would punch a hole where the boat would go. This probably would create more problems though if the ocean is too choppy.

My other suggestion would be to render the boat as a separate pass. You would render a matte object of the boat (white) against a black ocean. This matte would correctly show the water intersecting the hull. Then render the boat animation with the ocean turned off to get the boat clean. Then render the ocean animation with the boat object as "unseen by camera". This way, the ocean still catches the reflection of the boat (if you are rendering with reflections on). Then put it together in After Effects.
 

prometheus

OFF TOPIC
Thank you, I will look at LightWave guru.

I would prefer to find a usable solution within LightWave for this if possible. I'm only doing this for myself, and I've also just retired, so I don't have much of an income now for other purchases. But on the positive side, I do have more time to try to learn all the stuff I know nothing about at this stage!.
Since You refer to you don´t have income for other purchases, the proposal I mentioned of using something else ..will cost you nothing in terms of money, it´s open source, it can be done better in there as well, due to the anti-Lightwave phobia here, it takes a lot longer to convey this to you.
It will cost you in time to learn though.

I could have told you this already,and spared you the expense of posting several posts ..and still not getting an answer, but that is the way it is right now.
 

Oldcode

Member
I did a scene with a boat like this before and had the same problem. I created a custom object to block out the interior of the boat and then rendered it on the Alpha channel. I then used Adobe After Effects to optically mat out the water inside the boat.

If you have any kind of layering software, you should be able to do this.

Good Luck and ask away if you have any other questions.
 

Ma3rk

Curmudgeon in Training
All sorts of suggestions with differing complexities.

I always like to start by asking, "what's the actual shot or shots"? Sounds trite but storyboarding or even rough sketches to establish angle, height, etc., will often tell ya what you can reject or explore more. Minor repositioning of the camera might make a shot go from really complex, to "Oh, I can do that with compositing instead". You might make a water object with a hull "hole" & surface that for a specific shot.
 
Raycast perhaps >

 

aand... DPont Boolean...



 

Attachments

  • Boat Boolean.zip
    121.7 KB · Views: 32

prometheus

OFF TOPIC
I suppose it all depends on how much motion the rowing boat has and any eventual interaction, booleans as erikals showed may be enoug in this case and you may not need any more than that.

If not it´s displacement tricks mostly or cloth, bullet dynamis to use ..for the most advanced stuff perhaps a liquid simulation.

I will post you a privat link to what I refered to as other option, it´s dynamic in it´s solution.

About floating objects, Cageman had some tutorials for floating objects and wakes I think on his ftp server, can´t recall the passwords for it though, or if they still are intact in there..


Ps...links below, maybe not usefull until we get the passwords..but there is the links..in case anyone recalls the passwords, and provided it´s still in there.
try these...
full ftp index...
ftp://cageman.dyndns.org/

The wake folder..several videos covering float and wakes etc...
ftp://cageman.dyndns.org/Cageman_Creating_wakes/


With a little work I think you could do it nicely with displacements, perhaps by lod detail and increase poly subdiv nearby the rowboat to avoid having too dense mesh overall when referencing the row boat as the displacement origin.
 
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grafyx

New member
Depending on how much "chop" is in the water, you could try parenting a clip map (a silhouette of the boat hull) to the rowboat. This clip map would be applied to the water surface and it would punch a hole where the boat would go. This probably would create more problems though if the ocean is too choppy.

My other suggestion would be to render the boat as a separate pass. You would render a matte object of the boat (white) against a black ocean. This matte would correctly show the water intersecting the hull. Then render the boat animation with the ocean turned off to get the boat clean. Then render the ocean animation with the boat object as "unseen by camera". This way, the ocean still catches the reflection of the boat (if you are rendering with reflections on). Then put it together in After Effects.
Many thanks - I will give these ideas a try!
 

grafyx

New member
Since You refer to you don´t have income for other purchases, the proposal I mentioned of using something else ..will cost you nothing in terms of money, it´s open source, it can be done better in there as well, due to the anti-Lightwave phobia here, it takes a lot longer to convey this to you.
It will cost you in time to learn though.

I could have told you this already,and spared you the expense of posting several posts ..and still not getting an answer, but that is the way it is right now.
Thank you, it's much appreciated!
 

grafyx

New member
aand... DPont Boolean...


Thanks for all your suggestions, and the video etc. I'll look at these solutions.
All sorts of suggestions with differing complexities.

I always like to start by asking, "what's the actual shot or shots"? Sounds trite but storyboarding or even rough sketches to establish angle, height, etc., will often tell ya what you can reject or explore more. Minor repositioning of the camera might make a shot go from really complex, to "Oh, I can do that with compositing instead". You might make a water object with a hull "hole" & surface that for a specific shot.
Thanks - I do have one or two shots set up where the camera angle won't show the sea inside the boat, but i do also want a higher angle view, which is, of course, where the issue becomes a consideration!
 

prometheus

OFF TOPIC
Thank you, it's much appreciated!

I think I may be able to give you an overview on my youtube channels, as I´ve mentiond in private messaging to you..it will just be an overview to demonstrate how simple and fast it is to set up and simulate.
I will not link any of it here though, and It will not be until perhaps some 6 hours from now, with that technique you can discard the clipping technique since it is all happening with conformable displacements and dynamics.
 
alright, a preview of the original animation, just so you get the idea of DP Boolean...

gifme1MB.gif
 
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prometheus

OFF TOPIC
I just uploaded a simple quick showcase.
But I won´t link it directly as embedded video here or linked, due to the very high intolerance of refering to anything else than lightwave, even though you explicitly are ok with it and want to know.

Check my signatures for my youtube channel.
 

LightWaveGuru

Active member
Hi,

I am sure there's some way to do this, but I have no idea where to start.

I have an open topped rowing boat and an ocean, which I want to animate.

How do I stop the water 'filling' the boat? As with all 3D objects, where the boat and the water intersect, the water surface just continues right through the boat. Do I need to make the boat into some sort of collision object or something like that?

(I have several versions of LightWave 2018 and also 11.6, I'm happy to use whatever version if one is easier than another).

Also can anyone recommend any good tutorials that will take me from the old surfacing methods I am familiar with to using node surfaces. I am completely baffled by nodes. (I have followed a number of tutorials so far that tell me what I should create and what I should connect to what, but most of them don't explain WHY I should do that! So Ineed to understand the logic of creating a surface).

Thanks!

there are many methods to do this. one would be a grid of particles attached to open vdb. your boat is then a collision object for open vdb so that the particles are displaced from the collision object (i.e. your boat). this should be possible with the classic lightwave particle system as well as with open vdb's own particle system.

another method is that of boolean functions in open vdb for meshes. (mesh to volume function)
you can apply boolean laws with these open vdb functions.

with this you can e.g. exclude the water inside the boat. see CSG node > substraction

here a simple example


snip LWGuru
 
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