Tile Mixer

peebeearr

Member
...

Height blending is more for mixing a secondary texture through a main texture
using a bump/height map,
that something you can easily do with a native Mixer node.

Denis.

Hi Denis,

Height blending is possible? Really???? I have tried and tried but was convinced that height blending was not possible with LW. Shows how good I am with nodes... Could you tell me more about that?
 

dpont

Member
Depends what you want to achieve exactly,
given two color textures as input in the Mixer node,
which is nothing else than a blending node,
using the default mode,
plugging the bump map as opacity node gives a basic example.

Denis.
 

peebeearr

Member
Depends what you want to achieve exactly,
given two color textures as input in the Mixer node,
which is nothing else than a blending node,
using the default mode,
plugging the bump map as opacity node gives a basic example.

Denis.
I was thinking more of, say, the brick procedural texture bump height values. Then using 2 different textures for the stone and the grout and using bump height values to define when the grout starts overlapping the stone.

I couldn't get this to work as bump is not really 'height'.
 

dpont

Member
Bump map is height map, same grey height value,
except that bump is limited to 8bit, 256 levels,
while height can be coded on a higher level for displacement.

Bump map it is derivated internally to output a bump vector,
bump vector output is a variation which is then applied to original normal.

In a procedural texture, an alpha or luma output may be used as bump map.

Denis.
 
Last edited:

peebeearr

Member
Bump map is height map, same grey height value,
except that bump is limited to 8bit, 256 levels,
while height can be coded on a higher level for displacement.

Bump map it is derivated internally to output a bump vector,
bump vector output is a variation which is then applied to original normal.

In a procedural texture, an alpha or luma output may be used as bump map.

Denis.
I was thinking more like this:



See more here:
Snow Floor

In Substance you can actually use the height info as 3d data. The above image is actual geometry but it doesn't have to be. I tried again today but I can not get that to work within the Lightwave node system....

This material consist of 2 materials. A stone material and the snow. They use the bump/height info of the stone material to have the snow appear in the cracks. This way you can 'lower' the snow so it only shows in the cracks and not on the stone. Very cool if that's possible with nodes. I know it would be possible using actual 3D but that's not what I'm after. I want this effect done purely with nodes.
 
Here is an example for the displacement channel only (to keep it clear):

DisplacementMix_01.jpg

The Logic node compares the two height maps. If the height map of the snow is higher, it will be used, otherwise the height map of the paving stones.
The Remap node is used to adjust the height of the snow. In the animation I have animated the New Min value.

DisplaceMix_01.gif


This node setup works for all other textures as well.
I prefer to mix the individual textures rather than two finished materials because that usually renders faster.
For all the fun of mixing both materials in one surface, you should keep in mind if it doesn't make more sense to just use two objects (paving stones and snow).

ciao
Thomas
 

peebeearr

Member
Here is an example for the displacement channel only (to keep it clear):

View attachment 150836

The Logic node compares the two height maps. If the height map of the snow is higher, it will be used, otherwise the height map of the paving stones.
The Remap node is used to adjust the height of the snow. In the animation I have animated the New Min value.

View attachment 150837

This node setup works for all other textures as well.
I prefer to mix the individual textures rather than two finished materials because that usually renders faster.
For all the fun of mixing both materials in one surface, you should keep in mind if it doesn't make more sense to just use two objects (paving stones and snow).

ciao
Thomas
Hi Thomas,

Looks pretty cool!
Yes, I know how to do the 3D version. but when you have complex surfaces you can't/don't want to always use actual geometry to get that effect. In Substance you can have that effect in 2D (I believe since I don't have Substance but played with the Substance player)... That's what I'm after.
 

dpont

Member
...
Yes, I know how to do the 3D version. but when you have complex surfaces you can't/don't want to always use actual geometry to get that effect. In Substance you can have that effect in 2D (I believe since I don't have Substance but played with the Substance player)... That's what I'm after.
If you mean by "effect in 2D" using bump,
you can adapt the displacement node setup above,
just output 0 or 1 from the logic node,
connect it in a Mixer node as opacity to blend 2 bump vectors?

Denis.
 

peebeearr

Member
If you mean by "effect in 2D" using bump,
you can adapt the displacement node setup above,
just output 0 or 1 from the logic node,
connect it in a Mixer node as opacity to blend 2 bump vectors?

Denis.
I have been playing around with Thomas's setup and it actually does exactly what I want! In 3D as well as 2D. I don't even have to play around qwith blending vectors, just unplug the Displacement and there you go! (or simply untick the surface displacement in the Object properties.)

Here pictures of a displaced sphere and a non low poly non displaced sphere with the same texture on it.

MultiTexture-Displaced.jpg


MultiTexture-Flat.jpg


Here is my node setup:
Node-Setup.jpg


It might benefit from some improvement but it does the trick.

Denis and especially Thomas, thanks for your help!

I am wondering if there is a reason, apart from a lack of organizing nodes nicely, Lightwave nodes are not able to produce the same result as Substance (in many cases)?
 

peebeearr

Member
inbound649643159530815610.png

inbound4037598783852859481.png


Always wanted to make a material like this. This will be very useful.

This technique combined with weightmaps / turbulence occlusion maps make this super useful for endless non repeating ground or wall materials.
 
....I have created a compound node now for the calcs but it doesn't really make things less cluttered.

Exactly what I have done.

DisplacementMix_02.jpg

I attached the compound node below.

Manual: ;)

Material 1: plug in the first material.
Displacement Map 1: plug in the displacement map for the first material.
Additional Displacement 1 (optionally): here you can plug in an additional displacement map (e.g texture, procedural or weight) which is added to the original map. Note: a weight map can also have negative values to lower the height.
New Min Map 1/New Max Map 1 (optionally):
input a scalar for remapping the displacement min and max height if necessary. Note: the remapping also affects the additional displacement map.

Do the same for the second material.

I have hardly tested the node. So please use it at your own risk. If someone finds bugs please report them.

Have fun.

ciao
Thomas

p.s.: Ok, the name of the node is not thrilling, but tries to express what this thing is for...
 

Attachments

  • Depending on height Mixer Node 1.zip
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peebeearr

Member
Good one. I'll try a third layer.

The organisation of the nodes is horrendous though. I have created a compound node now for the calcs but it doesn't really make things less cluttered.

Tried this but it isn't great because you won't be able to see through the water as there won't be anything there. So unless it is really murky opaque water, I wouldn't go this route...
 
yeah, bit unsure what is the best way. i'll give it a shot later on.

Since the water is transparent and you can see the ground underneath, you actually need two objects here (ground and water). The mixer only works with opaque surfaces (at least you can't see through them).

ciao
Thomas
 

just a visual trick i think, pure reflection, is my guess, no transparency
demo > water level node puddles


 
just a visual trick i think, pure reflection, is my guess, no transparency
demo > water level node puddles

It would be interesting to see the output textures. But there can't be a real displacement under water, because there is no "under water". You can also create a fake 2D effect in Lightwave. But all in all, simply water objekt is easier and better.

However: because of the whole murky water discusion, I built in a sub surface scattering trick. I'm not sure if everything is quite correct, but it looks good when the stone shines through the snow.:)

DisplaceMix_05.gif


sss_test_003.jpg

ciao
Thomas
 
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