Record pivot rot or rest pos?

gordonbaty

New member
Just when I thought I'd worked out how to get bones animations from LW to SW3D, I discovered they were distorted in W3D :compbeati

I've gone step by step through my boning process and done the quit-and-reload before exporting to W3D, and the only thing that seems to be related is recording the pivot rotation and rest position. I thought you had to do those two things for any bones, but am I wrong? Do they not work for W3Ds?? Do you record pivot/rest for your W3Ds?

Please help!
 

MentalFish

LScript minion
Not being the most proficient of LW users I am not 100% sure what you mean here. Could you describe more detailed what isnt working, or even better upload the scene + model?
 

gordonbaty

New member
Just about everything I've read about bones in LW says you need to zero the bones rotations and positions on frame 0. The commands in Layout under Setup/Modify/More/Orientation. If you do a search for Record Bones you'll find a whole of load problems that got fixed because the guy wasn't using these functions. People talk about them as if they are essential.

Setting the pivot rotation seems to position the rotation handles better for a typical bones rig so you aren't fighting against gimbal lock (probably not an issue with your cool parallel bones rig) and H, P and B are set to 0, so it's easy to reset the bones after they've been moved.

But.. it seems to screw up the deformations on W3D export.

Maybe this is just another thing not to use for W3D. I reckon 50% of everything I've learnt about Lightwave, I had to un-learn to make it work with W3D...

Well, I guess I can tell that you don't use either right now, petterms! :)
 

MentalFish

LScript minion
Now I understand, yes, fiddling with the pivot rotation screws up the W3D animation. If you take a look at the biped bones setup i made, all the bones points forward instead of following the limb directions. It looks funny, but makes it easy to animate and to avoid gimbal lock. It will also help in the future creation of a ragdoll setup I want to make.
 

mdoyle

New member
I also find that its better to keep an base scene that is not animated and haven't moved the bones or changed their rest positiion. What I find is try and come up with your best use rig to animate with and have a saved "rest position" in a T pose and keep that seperate lws. Resave this as a different file and then animate/pose your new animation/pose. Export this and even use the bones previewer i uploaded in the other thread to check tha animations. JUst export the scene heirarchy and animation in this w3d as you have already exported the base model. It will mean u have a base one to work with that u can always go back to incase you change the bones at all. I am creating a new rig thats slightly different from petterms's will upload it once I get it done (if I ever do lol) Just a different way of doing it :D
 

adrencg

New member
gordonbaty said:
Just when I thought I'd worked out how to get bones animations from LW to SW3D, I discovered they were distorted in W3D :compbeati

I've gone step by step through my boning process and done the quit-and-reload before exporting to W3D, and the only thing that seems to be related is recording the pivot rotation and rest position. I thought you had to do those two things for any bones, but am I wrong? Do they not work for W3Ds?? Do you record pivot/rest for your W3Ds?

Please help!

I've been playing with bones and Shockwave recently. I've re-visited this SAD implementation over the years, to bust my head over it some more and see if I can get something workable. Newtek has not fixed this ever since they released the plugin a few years ago. It's been pretty much abandoned.

Using subpatches kind of works, but frozen triangle give less problems. Also, to answer your question, you can't use rec pivot rotation. It's best to make bones and leave them in their original orientation. Just set them at the joint and use them as a pivot for the weight maps.

The weight mapping is where the real problem is. You have to assign a weight map per bone, and there can be no overlap or cross influence. This makes the need for the bone to be layed in the object in the correct directions unnecessary, but it also makes for some jagged looked joints when bending. It's almost like using that old plugin Puppetmaster. It was about bending rigid point grouping as a solution for character animation, and it didn't look pretty. Shockwave is kind of the same thing...when 2 rigid weight maps are bent against each other, the joint looks horrible, especially with regular polys.

If anyone else has any input on how to get subpatches fully working in Shockwave, I'd love to hear it. For me, it almost works, but there will always be at least one bone that wants to do its own thing.

Mike
 

MentalFish

LScript minion
In my experience there is no realtime 3d engine that properly supports realtime subdivision and soft weightmapping (apart from PIM that is :) ). The highly praised realtime engine Torque has the same problems when it comes to deformations, a weight can only affect 100% or 0%, but it is more tolerant in terms of getting an animated model exported. I think its a 50-50 situation of NewTek not having bugs fixed, as well as ShockWave3D being limited as a format and out of date, but personally I havent had any problems lately getting either LW or ShockWave to do what I want.

That said, any realtime 3D problems will be solved by the release of PIM :)
 

adrencg

New member
petterms said:
In my experience there is no realtime 3d engine that properly supports realtime subdivision and soft weightmapping (apart from PIM that is :) ). The highly praised realtime engine Torque has the same problems when it comes to deformations, a weight can only affect 100% or 0%, but it is more tolerant in terms of getting an animated model exported. I think its a 50-50 situation of NewTek not having bugs fixed, as well as ShockWave3D being limited as a format and out of date, but personally I havent had any problems lately getting either LW or ShockWave to do what I want.

That said, any realtime 3D problems will be solved by the release of PIM :)

What is PIM?
 
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