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Rayek

Well-known member
That's good. I think time wise they are about the same though, but don't have experience with blender so I can't tell.
Agreed. The user's familiarity with the software is of course a primary driver as well.

Although personally I could never return to dealing with the Modeler<->Layout schism.
 

Planeguy

Active member
Agreed. The user's familiarity with the software is of course a primary driver as well.

Although personally I could never return to dealing with the Modeler<->Layout schism.
That's the most frustrating part of LW for me.
 

Although personally I could never return to dealing with the Modeler<->Layout schism.
with all the click-drag stuff in Blender the M/L limit seems like a walk in the park.
so, it all depends on the user, the workflows.

 

quakebox

Active member
Let's backtrack on this post main subject which is your opinion on Cycles X how clean it is, by no means I say LW is not as clean but GPU rendering is fast and if LightWave needs to be as fast as Cycles X it needs GPU rendering.
 

True That.

viking-angry.gif


 

Axis3d

Lightwave User Since 1990
1) Draw curve with the new improved curve drawing tool: 10 seconds.
2) Select space ship to animate along curve, add Follow Path contraint: 5 seconds
3) click the Animate Path button: 1 second.
4) adjust settings for orientation and check Follow Curve option. 5 seconds

Animation done. Scrub timeline. No keys need to be set, although they can be with the offset parameter.

It can be done in 15 seconds, or so, if you are quick and know the orientation that you need.

I would have to admit that before the new curve drawing tool, it would have taken at least 30 seconds to a minute to get the path drawn. The new curve drawing tools are a relief for this kind of work (although I never actually disliked Blender's path tools before). New users will love them: they now finally behave according to "industry standard".
Probably 15 seconds or less in LW - depending on how much caffeine I've had 😁

I already have a scene preset made using the awesome OD Tools. I just click to load the spline control preset into the scene. Then just replace the null object with a spaceship or whatever. Move a couple of nulls to shape the spline curve. Done.
 

Rayek

Well-known member
LightWave needs to be as fast as Cycles X it needs GPU rendering.
Well, the point is moot now because LightWave's development stopped. And at some point Octane may stop working on newer hardware and with newer drivers as well, since development on the LW plugin is officially over too. Same with Unreal.

LightWave needed a lot of things - but all water under the bridge now.

At least it is somewhat possible to export scenes with Collada or FBX to Blender for fast Cycles-X rendering.
 

prometheus

REBORN
Well, the point is moot now because LightWave's development stopped. And at some point Octane may stop working on newer hardware and with newer drivers as well, since development on the LW plugin is officially over too. Same with Unreal.

LightWave needed a lot of things - but all water under the bridge now.

At least it is somewhat possible to export scenes with Collada or FBX to Blender for fast Cycles-X rendering.
I´m not entirely sure collada or fbx is the best choice, for my tests they don´t give "pixel perfect" camera matching, while the alembic format seem to do just that.
 

prometheus

REBORN
That's good. I think time wise they are about the same though, but don't have experience with blender so I can't tell.

Agreed, don´t think there´s much difference in the time setup, just marginally depending on approach.
Using OD tools as Axis3D mentions, means buying addititional plugins for it to work in Layout, apart from that..you can´t draw any path in Scene context like you can in blender, the closest thing is to just keyframe move your item and then insert keyframes in between and move to make your path.

Making the path in modeler is a a different approach.
 

Axis3d

Lightwave User Since 1990
Agreed, don´t think there´s much difference in the time setup, just marginally depending on approach.
Using OD tools as Axis3D mentions, means buying addititional plugins for it to work in Layout, apart from that..you can´t draw any path in Scene context like you can in blender, the closest thing is to just keyframe move your item and then insert keyframes in between and move to make your path.

Making the path in modeler is a a different approach.
Spline Control can be used to draw your path in Layout. That's native to LW. I only used OD Tools for the ability to create preset content that I can recall quickly. That way, you aren't setting up Spline Control manually each time.
 

prometheus

REBORN
Spline Control can be used to draw your path in Layout. That's native to LW. I only used OD Tools for the ability to create preset content that I can recall quickly. That way, you aren't setting up Spline Control manually each time.
Not true, You can´t "Draw your spline" You can set up null controlls for the spline and adjust..not at all the same thing, you adjust a path with ctrl handles and arrange that, that´s not a drawing of any path.
That said, it may be enough for some.

What I refer to as drawing is a continuous true stroke draw with your "brush" cursor.
Between Lightwave and Blender, Only blender can do this in Scene Context.

Drawing your curve in modeler is the closest thing, but they you would have to work with your model elements Exactly as they are placed in a scene, and it´s probably not even possible if you have a high number of elements, and specificly placed and moved within the scene to fit a certain area, that you can not copy over to modeler.
 

Axis3d

Lightwave User Since 1990
Not true, You can´t "Draw your spline" You can set up null controlls for the spline and adjust..not at all the same thing, you adjust a path with ctrl handles and arrange that, that´s not a drawing of any path.
That said, it may be enough for some.

What I refer to as drawing is a continuous true stroke draw with your "brush" cursor.
Between Lightwave and Blender, Only blender can do this in Scene Context.
Same result though. Once drawn or added with a preset shape in blender, you still need to drag around the vertices (or add more) to get your shape right.
 

prometheus

REBORN
Same result though. Once drawn or added with a preset shape in blender, you still need to drag around the vertices (or add more) to get your shape right.
Not in terms of efficiency, drawing your path based on scene context will be much faster, at least for certain viewports, and shaping of the curves, creating spiral flow, other types of curve handle changes would probably yield a better form from scratch with a true draw, rather than going in and adjust handle points to shape it.

A complex path taking many turns, could be drawn in scene context around scene elements in a second, that´s not possible in a model only application, and for layout while adjusting path handles to acheive the same path could take minutes.

that´s only for the main course of the path, adjusting the handles for other directions is of course additional time, but the notion you have to do that, isn´t making the first path structure less faster.

Having OD tools is helpful, but it won´t overcome the issues I described above.
 
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Axis3d

Lightwave User Since 1990
Not in terms of efficiency, drawing your path based on scene context will be much faster, at least for certain viewports.
Depends on how you work, I suppose. I am drawing the path in the context of the scene, not modeler. I'm very efficient with this method. So far, everything I've needed to do has been not only possible, but achievable. And, as I've mentioned OD Tools was only for saving a scene preset to recall instantly. Blender just came out with an asset library, but doesn't compare to the ease of setup of the asset library in OD Tools. Hopefully, in time, that will improve.
 
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prometheus

REBORN
Depends on how you work, I suppose. I am drawing the path in the context of the scene, not modeler. I'm very efficient with this method.

With all respect, It really Doesn´t matter if you are efficient in skills, it doesn´t replace what you can or can´t do with a tecnhique of just moving the nulls around with adjustments, versus a superior faster method of actually drawing the path.

Since it´s soon Lucia over here, let´s take that Saffron bun shape and "draw" vs Move null handles to create that shape, how much faster wouldn´t that be with a simple draw tool, rather than moving the nulls?

Besides, if you were that efficient in "drawing" I say adjust the handles in Layout, why would you then ever need OD tools presets? which initially anyway need a preset made curve.

Besides, let´s take the draw curves projected on surfaces in blender, that way you can draw both in top view and, perspective projected on any terrain surface, or on objects, then set any object to follow that path, not possible in lightwave.

But all to ones own satisfaction for the workflow One does.
 
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Axis3d

Lightwave User Since 1990
With all respect, It really Doesn´t matter if you are efficient in skills, it doesn´t replace what you can or can´t do with a tecnhique of just moving the nulls around with adjustments, versus a superior faster method of actually drawing the path.

Since it´s soon Lucia over here, let´s take that Saffron bun shape and "draw" vs Move null handles to create that shape, how much faster wouldn´t that be with a simple draw tool, rather than movign the nulls?

Besides, let´s take the draw curves projected on surfaces in blender, that way you can draw both in top view and, perspective projected on any terrain surface, or on objects, then set any object to follow that path, not possible in lightwave.
Like I said. It hasn't affected my current projects (or past) in how I animate in LW. Spline control has worked just fine for motion paths and for growing veins/tentacles, etc.
That being said, I do like the ability to draw a spline over a deformed surface in blender. But there are currently too many hacks and workarounds for me to do my current projects in blender. I'm sure they'll get there one day.
 

Axis3d

Lightwave User Since 1990
With all respect, It really Doesn´t matter if you are efficient in skills, it doesn´t replace what you can or can´t do with a tecnhique of just moving the nulls around with adjustments, versus a superior faster method of actually drawing the path.

Since it´s soon Lucia over here, let´s take that Saffron bun shape and "draw" vs Move null handles to create that shape, how much faster wouldn´t that be with a simple draw tool, rather than moving the nulls?

Besides, if you were that efficient in "drawing" I say adjust the handles in Layout, why would you then ever need OD tools presets? which initially anyway need a preset made curve.

Besides, let´s take the draw curves projected on surfaces in blender, that way you can draw both in top view and, perspective projected on any terrain surface, or on objects, then set any object to follow that path, not possible in lightwave.

But all to ones own satisfaction for the workflow One does.
I don't think you understand what OD Tools is doing for me. It is not creating any curves for use in LW. It is giving LW the ability to have an asset library. The ability to have preset models, scene files, etc. at the click of a button.
 

prometheus

REBORN
I don't think you understand what OD Tools is doing for me. It is not creating any curves for use in LW. It is giving LW the ability to have an asset library. The ability to have preset models, scene files, etc. at the click of a button.

Wrong..I understand that very well ..and what it does for you since you said it before, and I can understand that workflow, But other assets and it´s importance for you is a totally different matter when discussed in relation to how to create a curve path the fastest way.

I have no doubt it is a valuable tool for many presets, including preset curves as well in Layout.
 

Axis3d

Lightwave User Since 1990
Wrong..I understand that very well ..and what it does for you since you said it before, and I can understand that workflow, But other assets and it´s importance for you is a totally different matter when discussed in relation to how to create a curve path the fastest way.

I have no doubt it is a valuable tool for many presets, including preset curves as well in Layout.
Edited by moderator ###############################################. Make curves however you want in blender. This is a LW forum and I'm just telling my way of doing something in LW. And with that, I'm bored with this "conversation".
 
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prometheus

REBORN
Edited by moderator. I really don't care how you work in blender. Make curves however you want in blender. This is a LW forum and I'm just telling my way of doing something in LW. And with that, I'm bored with this "conversation".

Edited by moderator ##########################################################

I probably need more smileys, or avoid being short and decisive in the answers.

Edited by moderator ##########################################################

How I choose to work or you choose to work, has nothing to do with How you technically is able to work with them

Edited by moderator ##########################################################
 
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