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prometheus

REBORN
Annnnnnd... here it comes prometheus with his Blender push :D :) :).

It´s free, yes..but other software can be accounted in if we exclude that, such as modo...But "B" has some unique tools for some modeling actions that Lightwave can not approach, such as the skin modifier, wireframe..and the sculpting.

All the curve tools allow for an everlasting changable non destructive workflow to move and deform curves in very advanced ways.
You have to go for pz bezier to get close to that, but once it´s dropped you have to start over again with either the saved paths, or create new curves.
It has amazing tools, but then again..it can also be to messy and distracting to work with and not as focused, that is why we still have those staying with lighwave..despite the other incites of another software.

these software has workflows and tools..which lightwave simply don´t have, and Lightwave has another approach that also works nicely for some, and again..I can not, nor will not motivate anyone who is so skilled and used with lightwave to try anything else out, it will be time consuming to learn a new software if you are at this level Jet is at already, and as he said..he don´t need a new lightwave version either.

Why wouldn´t I talk about it..sort of just chiming in on something that isn´t likely the case or what? just to agree?

Set all that aside ..wether or not we talk about more other tools like unitye, unreal, 3d coat, photoshop etc, what is interesting to hear ..Why Jet feels the software is working so great..what is it that it does so much better and faster, rather than just concluding it works for him..it says nothing for anyone new to the software as to why.

Also interested to hear what Plugins Jet thinks is essential for him.

As he said, he would have jumped ship long ago if "this" wasn´t the case...that can only pertain to him(while others may join in for themself), since that is what he refers to..and that is also what I stressed, on..it is about him and his skills foremost.

And for me, I can also do more with Lightwave modeler than I can in "B" for most tasks, but there are also tools in there for certain modeling tasks, that I find impossible to acheive in lightwave, or would take much much longer time to accomplish, and I have only worked a fraction in B VS Lightwave, so that is not surprising.

You know Lewis, a pity you had to mention the..and here he goes to push, it wasn´t clearly stated more than there ar free tools, and since you jumped in on it, I had to ellaborate on it..which just puts more focus on other tools than Lightwave.

So we can drop all that from now..and let´s hear what tools Jet thinks are essential or why or what it is in the workflow that is Unique to Lightwave, if it isn´t..what´s the fuzz then? except that we have a very talented and effective Lightwave artist.

The trick or the good promote ..isn´t about saying ..it works for me, and I can do this better and faster, but to explain why that is..and be informative about it so anyone can make a judgement on why that is..and if it
possibly could work for others as well, so we need to hear more about why this is the case.

And in this case, all Jet actually would need, is the modeler, keyshot can do the rendering..and he does props, not animation shots.
 
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Lewis

Member # 777
The "trick" is exactly in that part as he said "..it works for me".
And i tried and used Blender (and Max and Modo) and no software can do all better than other software so although you can do some faster/niucer stuff in blender you can do other in LW and or MAX/Maya/modo... whatever but all it comes down to user preference and exactly that sentence says "it works for me".

So let's agree that we disagree about LW vs Blender and leave it at that :).
 

prometheus

REBORN
The "trick" is exactly in that part as he said "..it works for me".
And i tried and used Blender (and Max and Modo) and no software can do all better than other software so although you can do some faster/niucer stuff in blender you can do other in LW and or MAX/Maya/modo... whatever but all it comes down to user preference and exactly that sentence says "it works for me".

So let's agree that we disagree about LW vs Blender and leave it at that :).

Well.I don´t agree about the first part and we have different opinion on what really matters, to me what you assert is pretty nay saying.
It´s similar to, lightwave was used in this and that movie, or modo or may was used in this and that movi, but excluding why it was used and how...and all that is exactly what I would like to see change to something relevant for what it is about the software..and not about the artists skills or mentality or how long he has been using it that makes all the difference, it is of course how it is and a contributing factor...but speaks more about the artist than the software.

So for any future showcase, "I used it for props, and I used it for that movie"is secondary to why it was used, when it refers to what the software can do for certain artist.

So..if Jet and newtek gets this "Right" a proper description on what it is in the workflow, and what plugins that may elevate, or certain tools that makes it so effective..that will only serve a promotion of lightwave better than Only a description on that it has been used for years (though that matters also of course)

And same for any showcase of lightwave being used in movies or series or archwis, it´s not enough with the plain fact it was used, it needs ellaboration on why and how.

But I agree on your final parts, everyone will have their own experiences with various software and feel that it doesn´t work for them, that is one part of the equation, but there is also parts that are not subjective in it´s nature..and that a certain software can perform modeling tasks the other cant..

And for Lightwave plus..you can not do a bezier bridge in blender(artspheres plugin), (yes it´s true..there is no option like that..not even in addon land, and the solutions I have been presented with isn´t good enough for me)
And for blender plus..You can not do a skin modifier, or wireframe modifier on any wireframe/edge object to mesh it in lightwave so it also is fused, and also continue to move and edit the wireframe without deforming the skinned mesh, and drawing curves with meshed profile directly on to a surface...not possible in lightwave.

Wether or not one like the more direct editing in lightwave..which sort of can be faster in many cases.. or prefer to have the jump in and out of edit mode and have modifiers etc... that is another matter.
 
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prometheus

REBORN
Exactly
also it was clearly indicated that these gallery submissions are to promote lw in production.
Wich should be repsected.

I didn´t promote anything else specific n my opinion, I stated that other software could probably work for other artists as well..you guys are drawing it all to narrowminded.
had lewis not even mentioned me as the blender pusher, it wouldn´t have been much of a problem, would it?

The response was in reference to his description on why he doesn´t jump to something else, which doesn´t say much other than it works for him, and not why.
also to have him return with descriptions on why ..and not just concluding to a life in the business, that says more of him than the software, we need more about the software strengths right?

There are also other free tools to model with than "B" but if you guys insist to push me more as a pusher of such things, I can gladely name them for you and further distract from lightwave than the original response I gave.
 
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Jet3D

New member
It´s free, yes..but other software can be accounted in if we exclude that, such as modo...But "B" has some unique tools for some modeling actions that Lightwave can not approach, such as the skin modifier, wireframe..and the sculpting.

All the curve tools allow for an everlasting changable non destructive workflow to move and deform curves in very advanced ways.
You have to go for pz bezier to get close to that, but once it´s dropped you have to start over again with either the saved paths, or create new curves.
It has amazing tools, but then again..it can also be to messy and distracting to work with and not as focused, that is why we still have those staying with lighwave..despite the other incites of another software.

these software has workflows and tools..which lightwave simply don´t have, and Lightwave has another approach that also works nicely for some, and again..I can not, nor will not motivate anyone who is so skilled and used with lightwave to try anything else out, it will be time consuming to learn a new software if you are at this level Jet is at already, and as he said..he don´t need a new lightwave version either.

Why wouldn´t I talk about it..sort of just chiming in on something that isn´t likely the case or what? just to agree?

Set all that aside ..wether or not we talk about more other tools like unitye, unreal, 3d coat, photoshop etc, what is interesting to hear ..Why Jet feels the software is working so great..what is it that it does so much better and faster, rather than just concluding it works for him..it says nothing for anyone new to the software as to why.

Also interested to hear what Plugins Jet thinks is essential for him.

As he said, he would have jumped ship long ago if "this" wasn´t the case...that can only pertain to him(while others may join in for themself), since that is what he refers to..and that is also what I stressed, on..it is about him and his skills foremost.

And for me, I can also do more with Lightwave modeler than I can in "B" for most tasks, but there are also tools in there for certain modeling tasks, that I find impossible to acheive in lightwave, or would take much much longer time to accomplish, and I have only worked a fraction in B VS Lightwave, so that is not surprising.

You know Lewis, a pity you had to mention the..and here he goes to push, it wasn´t clearly stated more than there ar free tools, and since you jumped in on it, I had to ellaborate on it..which just puts more focus on other tools than Lightwave.

So we can drop all that from now..and let´s hear what tools Jet thinks are essential or why or what it is in the workflow that is Unique to Lightwave, if it isn´t..what´s the fuzz then? except that we have a very talented and effective Lightwave artist.

The trick or the good promote ..isn´t about saying ..it works for me, and I can do this better and faster, but to explain why that is..and be informative about it so anyone can make a judgement on why that is..and if it
possibly could work for others as well, so we need to hear more about why this is the case.

And in this case, all Jet actually would need, is the modeler, keyshot can do the rendering..and he does props, not animation shots.

OK guys,
Let clear this one up....
I don't use ANY plugins except for Rope editor and a Thicken tool. My lightwave is vanilla excluding a tab which hold my common tools - although, most are covered by keyboard shortcuts.
 

Jet3D

New member
I didn´t promote anything else specific n my opinion, I stated that other software could probably work for other artists as well..you guys are drawing it all to narrowminded.
had lewis not even mentioned me as the blender pusher, it wouldn´t have been much of a problem, would it?

The response was in reference to his description on why he doesn´t jump to something else, which doesn´t say much other than it works for him, and not why.
also to have him return with descriptions on why ..and not just concluding to a life in the business, that says more of him than the software, we need more about the software strengths right?

There are also other free tools to model with than "B" but if you guys insist to push me more as a pusher of such things, I can gladely name them for you and further distract from lightwave than the original response I gave.

Guys, I don't understand why the discussion has veered into this direction. This is a part of the reason that I don't post in forums much.
I am not after anything other that to give something back and to promote awareness.

Prometheus, It's hard not to chat face to face.
I am merely showing what Lightwave is capable of. I am not trying to sell the software or explain why I use it. Productions have never cared what I use. They only want results and fast. Production gives me an office or department - I bring in my own system and setup - production rents my hardware and software and pays me for the duration.

When I saw Zbrush, I didn't need to know how artists used it or how effective it was - the artwork samples in the forums and magazines convinced me to invest money and time.
I am just sharing my experience and images of what I do with Lightwave. I don't need to promote.
I just want to inspire. I seek to let other Lightwaver's know that it is used and to let potential uses know that it is worth a look.

I can only say how it is for me. I used Lightwave in the medical industry for five years, defense forces for six years and film for twelve. Blender is great from what I have seen. Brad Peebler showed me Modo when it started and some of my best artists use Modo today.
I am trying to help Lightwave though....
 

prometheus

REBORN
Guys, I don't understand why the discussion has veered into this direction. This is a part of the reason that I don't post in forums much.
I am not after anything other that to give something back and to promote awareness.


It can be summed up, someone hade the urge to put up unnecessary remarks/comments...while perhaps not ment as provokotive..if we look at the the smileys, but I just found it silly and unnecessary, and I myself made unnecessary ellaboration on it..sorry for that, all that has really nothing to do with your artwork or what you work with except I just made a response on that of other tools, and what you answered here later is just what I liked to hear as an answer that doesn´t need any further explanation.

lewis:"Annnnnnd... here it comes prometheus with his Blender push . "

And I just mentioned other free tools, that´s it....so when I mention free tools, it´s in my bag that I have often spoken about how a certain other free tool works quite often, and that is what lewis had to refer to as me here again being a pusher of that tool.

All that I think you understand why the discussion turned to that twist, but why it was necessary from both of us to start and turn that way....that I don´t understand either.:)
And sadly...as you concluded, part of why one may stay away from forums when you feel things go to unnecessary twists.


Remarkable that you don´t seem to use more plugin tools for lightwave, I would have figured 3rd powers metamesh, decal sticker and LW cad would be a real helper for you.
And my favourite free plugins that I find indispensable is px_bezier curve (but you got rope editor) and artspheres Bezier bridge ( no other tool that merges faces with a bridge like that)

Thanks for taking the time to ellaborate on your workflow and tools.
 

Chris S. (Fez)

Active member
Lightwave users being compelled to defend how and why they use Lightwave...in a Lightwave forum. Enough.

Nope. Enough.

Here's a simple rule that I think should be followed and enforced in this forum without exception starting now: don't bring up Blender or any other competing software in this forum for any reason. Even in "B" code.

If someone else brings up Blender in a sly or straightforward manner, then report the post. It is that simple. No discussion. No nitpicking. A simple, strictly enforced rule.

Thank you, Jet, for sharing your exceptional Lightwave work.
 

prometheus

REBORN
Lightwave users being compelled to defend how and why they use Lightwave...in a Lightwave forum. Enough.

Nope. Enough.

Here's a simple rule that I think should be followed and enforced in this forum without exception starting now: don't bring up Blender or any other competing software in this forum for any reason. Even in "B" code.

If someone else brings up Blender in a sly or straightforward manner, then report the post. It is that simple. No discussion. No nitpicking. A simple, strictly enforced rule.

Thank you, Jet, for sharing your exceptional Lightwave work.

That is honestly ridiculous, that would need a propagation all over to other software, do not discuss anything except Lightwave
You yourself is with this just adding confusion and inflation to the whole debate, there is in no way anything I mentioned "initially" that would have caused Jet to defend how and why they use lightwave..that sitution was inflated by someone remarking me as a blender pusher.

I did not mention blender, and it was all about a question if his statement about why he didn´t use any other software..since there is also other very capable ones, that gave birth to my question..and that doesn´t imply any hidden defend yourself question to him.

The answers Jet gave should have been enough on that topic, not yet another policing telling what we cant mention or not, not anything of that was against any forum rules, and initially not mentioned blender at all, until a certain user, decided to project all that over to this thread.

read my first post about other software again..and my perception on that it has to do do with his skills, talent, and his long history with Lightwave..and that someone else just as good can do similar work efficient with other software, check that and what I was met with..and think about that.

The thing is..both Lewis and you here are sort inflating it..first by attacking me as a blender PUSHER, and then you are continue to inflate the discussion with another.."do not mention blender" ever, and as such Lewis was the first guilty one, and then actually Jet, who mentioned blender as a great software (if we are to talk you by the word) Not me..I do put any blame on Jet at all, or criticise him for his choice in anyway.

It´just all ridiculous nonsense with this kind of flame debates ..if no one isn´t promoting other software.

The inflation moment was started with the Lewis comment remark on blender pusher, not me....Again, I didn´t mention blender, you can project anything you like to the comments on other free software, and also think careful about in what context I mentioned other free software..and which those could be..and see if that has any weight to be improper or out of forum rules, vs "annnd..here comes the blender pusher"'

I hope you didn´t report Lewis for bringing up blender in the first place, or Jet for saying it´s a great software...or yourself?
 
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prometheus

REBORN
keep it in the dedicated thread.

Yes, as much as possible, it would however be impossible to have a proper discussion on LW development if One can not refer to other tools, or we could just be all hardcore fanboys that cares not about how the tools work.
That is a hard balance to do, but if users project their own perceptions on other users discussing how a tool can be made better..in a way that they consider that user a promoter of the other software..then they do not have a good sense of balance
in regards to the discussion around tools.
 

Chris S. (Fez)

Active member
As I said: Enough. No more nitpicking. No more dissection of discussion.

Keep it simple. No Blender. No Houdini. Except in dedicated threads.

Enough.
 

prometheus

REBORN
As I said: Enough. No more nitpicking. No more dissection of discussion.

Keep it simple. No Blender. No Houdini. Except in dedicated threads.

Enough.

That´s not gonna work, especially since that is not what you said for dedicated threads in the first place.
and not since you continue to police with enough, you do not have mandate to dictate that really.
You and I are part of the problem of not starting the flame, but inflating it...you guys should have left all this to Sbowie to moderate and not try to do that by yourself.

 

gar26lw

New member
As I said: Enough. No more nitpicking. No more dissection of discussion.

Keep it simple. No Blender. No Houdini. Except in dedicated threads.

Enough.

yeah I agree, its screwing up this great thread and ruining the whole premise of encouraging good artists to post quality content promoting Lightwave.

Apologies Jet3D
 

SBowie

'the write stuff'
Staff member
OK, I'm tired of this too. Et voila ...

We already have a thread for discussing interop between Blender and LW. Now we have one for people who want to discuss the (purported or real) benefits of competing apps. I probably won't move every last post of that sort here: For example, if someone simply says, "I wish LW's feature X worked more like Modo's version", or "Is there any ways to do this Blender trick in LW?", I might (repeat, "might") let it stand. But if it goes on for more than about two sentences, look for it here.

And btw, I'm not going to spend much, if any time, defending my decisions. Sometimes something will get scooped up that arguably might not fit here. This isn't the Supreme Court, and I'm not going to spend all my time parsing minutiae. Sorry.
 
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