Lightwave 2019 needs aces color space


ok, got it.


i was afraid the answer would be something like that, it can, but at least now i understand a bit more.




Thank You!  [saved]
 
So long as LW2018+ encourage LDR limiting on HDR backdrops/textures to prevent specular fireflies (esp. from rough refl/refr), having LW load and/or render content in ACEScg (or Rec2020, for that matter) seems likely to cause at least as much harm as benefit.
Hi,
this is just one way to deal with rough surfaces and bright pixels (of course a really cheap one, but which has his price too - independent from the Aces workflow).

ciao
Thomas
 

jwiede

Electron wrangler
I would say that also for 2018 will be nice add ;)

I'm pretty sure it isn't coming for LW2018 or LW2019. Then again, I'm pretty sure it isn't coming for LW2020 either. ;)

It's important, though, and I think it'll quickly become another feature whose absence significantly blocks LW customer interest.
 
Last edited:

lwanmtr

Lwanmtr
Indeed, I doubt we'll see it anytime soon, there are definitely more pressing issues that need to be resolved/added to 2020 before worrying about a new color space (which still requires jumping through hoops to get working in most software).
 

Tim Parsons

Well-known member
Seriously, if you look at the article I cited above ("Idiot's Guide to ACES", link below), it does a reasonably good, concise job of explaining how it all works (as well as specifically how ACES is superior to a "working in Linear" approach).

Good refs I've found:

Toadstorm's "Idiot's Guide to ACES" blog article (also cited above)
Chris Brejon's ACES Tutorials
AMPAS' "ACES Guide" Primer

The main thing to understand is that a proper ACES workflow removes the need for most manual adjustments of input, view, and destination color spaces/gamuts, and replaces all that with a direct, reliable, standard and (somewhat) future-proofed approach to color spaces/gamuts. The inevitable popularity of UHD displays built around Rec2020 gamut standard (much broader than either sRGB or Rec709 gamuts) ensures proper color space/gamut handling will only become more important in the future. ACES support/integration mitigates a lot of that pain.

I did. I'm just more of an idiot than your average idiot. :)
 

fishhead

Frequenter
Hi all, sorry to revive an old thread but it seemed this was the most fitting place for my question:

I am a slight bit confused about the use of the ACES Filmic pixel filter in LW2020.0.x . Maybe someone who might be smarter than me can share insights here:

So if I get it right LW can - at least in some way - handle ACES Color space. As there is the Tone Mapping Pixel Filter, right?
But applying it for actual Tone Mapping purposes, wouldn´t that mean to basically destroy all the benefits that come with the ACES color science system?
Also the help says (https://docs.lightwave3d.com/lw2020...ing-and-compositing/effects-window/processing - somewhere in the lower third of that page) that the pixel filter is "...taking the high dynamic range of a LightWave render and massaging the contents to display..."
Which basically would be a clear No-No for to use the result in a compositing workflow as we loose all the benefit of a high dynamic range image.
But isn´t that - a broadened color range - the essence of a workflow incorporating ACES?
Or is only the tone mapper part that´s using "ACES Filmic" different from the other pixel filters and I can safely output using ACES Filmic and expect an intact high dynamic linear image?
 
Which basically would be a clear No-No for to use the result in a compositing workflow as we loose all the benefit of a high dynamic range image.
Exactly! Tone Mapping always reduces the dynamic range, that's what it's for.
Since Lightwave renders in high dynamic range you have to convert the image for display on the monitor (or printing etc.). Here the Tone Mapping Pixel Filter offers more adjustment possibilities. This is not useful for compositing. But since almost all renderers have this and the images look much cooler, they probably integrated it into Lightwave too.

ciao
Thomas
 

No-No for to use the result in a compositing workflow
true, it is to be used for preview purposes, or... direct to video.
but for a freelancer for example, he/she might not want to do too much compositing, and rather render directly to video, and give it to the client.

 

jwiede

Electron wrangler
Hi all, sorry to revive an old thread but it seemed this was the most fitting place for my question:

I am a slight bit confused about the use of the ACES Filmic pixel filter in LW2020.0.x . Maybe someone who might be smarter than me can share insights here:

So if I get it right LW can - at least in some way - handle ACES Color space. As there is the Tone Mapping Pixel Filter, right?
But applying it for actual Tone Mapping purposes, wouldn´t that mean to basically destroy all the benefits that come with the ACES color science system?
Also the help says (https://docs.lightwave3d.com/lw2020...ing-and-compositing/effects-window/processing - somewhere in the lower third of that page) that the pixel filter is "...taking the high dynamic range of a LightWave render and massaging the contents to display..."
Which basically would be a clear No-No for to use the result in a compositing workflow as we loose all the benefit of a high dynamic range image.
But isn´t that - a broadened color range - the essence of a workflow incorporating ACES?
Or is only the tone mapper part that´s using "ACES Filmic" different from the other pixel filters and I can safely output using ACES Filmic and expect an intact high dynamic linear image?
It's exactly what you suspect it is: A dynamic-range-reducing tonemapper that attempts to give an image the "same sort of look" that comes from working in ACES, but does not actually enable "working in ACES" or anything similar. Its output is not really suitable for subsequent post work due to the tonemapped, narrow dynamic range present.
 
Last edited:

fishhead

Frequenter
Thanks guys!
Okay, so I got at least that right: it has not really much to do with the actual ACES workflow. This pixel filter is basically just a pretender of sorts... :-\
Too bad I had some hopes here, so back to "traditional" linear output here.

Of course, I was also very happy a decade ago with all what trusty old LW was offering image format wise. To be honest in the beginning of it I had no clue what to do with all these 16 bit + depth formats.
Directly rendering to video really was a thing of the nineties I´d say. Every serious freelancer (even a hobbiest could have quite a bit of fun playing with the free compositing tools out there) should really try and get her/his feet wet with at least some degree of compositing as it makes also often enough reacting on client changes so much friendlier as you gain so much more flexibilty.
 

Directly rendering to video really was a thing of the nineties I´d say.
Mostly, yes.
If you can, do it in post.
For a quick Youtube video, doing post work in LW can be of use.
For pro stuff, never do post process rendering in LW.


 
Last edited:

inakito

Member
We need ACES for 2020 too :) it is an industry standard nowadays and it makes a pretty high quality difference, besides being a current demand in order to work for different film and TV projects.
 

lwanmtr

Lwanmtr
That would require they actually do work on 2020 and add in OCIO support (as every other program has done). Til then LW is stuck with rec 709
 

lwanmtr

Lwanmtr
Im sure it could, they could also add into the color management, the ability to select OCIO from system environment variables. Someone who programs would know better.
 
Top Bottom