Lightwave 2019 Crashing Layout - RTX 3080 / 3090 / 3070 - Suggestion / Test / Idea Thread

RPSchmidt

Member
Hello all!

I have seen a few posts here and many threads over on Lightwave Support Group and Lightwave Salvation about Lightwave Layout crashing repeatedly with Nvidia RTX 30XX cards.

I don't have a Facebook account (and don't want one) but I was wondering what driver those having issues are using and whether they had tried or were using the studio driver for their GPU, or are they using the default gaming driver.

I also thought that perhaps if other here had ideas but also did not have a Facebook account, perhaps those who are on Facebook could cross-pollinate questions / potential solutions between this thread and Facebook.

Anyhoo... my suggestion (if it has not currently been tried) is to use a driver cleaner to completely remove all previous driver versions and try a clean install of the studio driver for your GPU version.
 
This might sound odd, but if you have an Nvidia Card and are crashing, and it is also given that it is an OpenGl issue. Could you download an older Nvidia drivers and see if OpenGl works fine and doesn't crash. Sometimes when they patch one part of the driver with a new one, they fix one issue but create a brand new bug with the new driver that was not there before. To rule this out try using one of the really old drivers that you can use for the card and see if crashes and in the "same way" at the "same time" if the crashing is experience is repeatable.

My gut feeling is that it might just be an OpenGl issue with "new" Nvidia drivers and if it works with the previous version not the newest then maybe as a quick fix just use the older driver and report it to Nvidia.

Anyway my idea is testable if Nvidia allows you to download older drivers and also to do a clean install.

Out of curiosity what do they actually mean by crashing. For example :
1. A gfx glitch and Lightwave is still running.
2. Lightwave stops running.
3. The Operating system stops running.

Can you give us further information as to watch type of crash they mean and get them to describe it and also how frequent and does it crash at the same time all the time. If it crashes at the same time and is repeatable then this would be great for narrowing down what the underlying cause is and how to possibly fix it.
 
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Mastoy

Member
The first question I would ask is : has anyone been able to launch LW 2019 with a RTX 30XX card ?
If someone has, we could check his hardware/software in detail.
 

next_n00b

Member
I have been using RTX 3070 with LightWave 2020 for months without any issues. It is temporary back into my i910900K till Monday when I get RTX A4000. If anybody wants to test something specific, hurry up, because 3070 goes back to her brothers and sisters into a mining colony soon.
 

Mastoy

Member
I think the problem is exclusive to LW 2019 + RTX 30XX.
I'm not 100% sure but I recall the problem is even exclusive to Layout (Modeler seems fine)
 

RPSchmidt

Member
I have been using RTX 3070 with LightWave 2020 for months without any issues. It is temporary back into my i910900K till Monday when I get RTX A4000. If anybody wants to test something specific, hurry up, because 3070 goes back to her brothers and sisters into a mining colony soon.

I think the problem is exclusive to LW 2019 + RTX 30XX.
I'm not 100% sure but I recall the problem is even exclusive to Layout (Modeler seems fine)

Yes, the issue seems to affect only LW 2019.

I should have mentioned that in my initial post.

The problem is, there are several issues with LW 2020 that aren't in 2019, so many 'wavers tend to keep both on their system to address various issues. But now, it appears that 2019 Layout is having some kind of conflict with the RTX 30XX cards.
 

kopperdrake

Super Duper Member
Another one here having the same problem, but I'm curious if anyone is running 30xx cards alongside 20xx cards in the same rig?
 

Lito

Member
This is how to get 2019 running with a 30x0 nvidia card. But it's not a good solution really.
 

kievi

Member
I have the same problem. Lightwave Layout 2018/2019/2020 crashes every starting time if I use my Zotac 3070 or 3090 cards. All works fine, at another pc, with rtx2080. My Notebook, with GTX1660, works fine too.

The modeler works as usual on all cards.
I have since surrendered.
I completely reinstalled a computer, reinstalled drivers, played with OpenGL. It doesn't work.
I've spent days doing this to no avail. I'm at a loss now. Of course, I also sent crash reports to NewTek. Without answer. :)

consequently, I play around with blender. But it sucks

best regards
kievi
 

Sensei

TrueArt Support
One of you, lucky owner of 30x0 card, should send card to one of 3rd party developers to investigate what can be done..
LightWolf, JWiede, ex-LW-developer etc. etc.
Developer can run code with debugging turned on, inside of debugger,
so will get hit with module and offset etc. place there break-points, analyze code etc. etc.

I showed in this thread how to get more detailful crash info in this thread:
Why nobody use this knowledge?

Later possible solutions are:
- patch LW executable file
- patch nVidia driver file
- run-time patch of one or the other or both
- send bug report to nVidia driver authors with meaningful amount of details to tell them which line of code they need to change to fix it.
Many other people with completely different applications have issues too, with 30x0. Might be, or might not be the same issue as with LW.
 

MonroePoteet

Active member
Here's a post I made back in 2019 regarding downloading and using DebugDiag, which will produce a dump for LW when it crashes (very large) along with a summary file showing the stack, exception details, etc.:


If there is anyone at VizRT who deals with the source code the resulting summary TXT file might allow some analysis / debug.

Good luck!
mTp
 

Mastoy

Member
I have the same problem. Lightwave Layout 2018/2019/2020 crashes every starting time if I use my Zotac 3070 or 3090 cards. All works fine, at another pc, with rtx2080. My Notebook, with GTX1660, works fine too.

The modeler works as usual on all cards.
I have since surrendered.
I completely reinstalled a computer, reinstalled drivers, played with OpenGL. It doesn't work.
I've spent days doing this to no avail. I'm at a loss now. Of course, I also sent crash reports to NewTek. Without answer. :)

consequently, I play around with blender. But it sucks

best regards
kievi
Even LW 2020 ???
 

RPSchmidt

Member
I have the same problem. Lightwave Layout 2018/2019/2020 crashes every starting time if I use my Zotac 3070 or 3090 cards. All works fine, at another pc, with rtx2080. My Notebook, with GTX1660, works fine too.

The modeler works as usual on all cards.
I have since surrendered.
I completely reinstalled a computer, reinstalled drivers, played with OpenGL. It doesn't work.
I've spent days doing this to no avail. I'm at a loss now. Of course, I also sent crash reports to NewTek. Without answer. :)

consequently, I play around with blender. But it sucks

best regards
kievi

I know you said you reinstalled drivers, but just out of curiosity, did you use the Nvidia studio drivers, or the default 30XX drivers?

While I doubt there is a significant difference as far as Layout is concerned, I was just curious if anyone with those cards had tried the studio drivers as opposed to the gaming drivers.

Also, is it possible that it might have something to do with Nvidia's efforts to thwart miners? That changes they made to stop bitcoin miners might factor in for some reason?

If so, is it possible that one of the workarounds that bitcoin miners have found for the situation might be a resolution to Layout crashing with those cards?
 

next_n00b

Member
I know you said you reinstalled drivers, but just out of curiosity, did you use the Nvidia studio drivers, or the default 30XX drivers?

While I doubt there is a significant difference as far as Layout is concerned, I was just curious if anyone with those cards had tried the studio drivers as opposed to the gaming drivers.

Also, is it possible that it might have something to do with Nvidia's efforts to thwart miners? That changes they made to stop bitcoin miners might factor in for some reason?

If so, is it possible that one of the workarounds that bitcoin miners have found for the situation might be a resolution to Layout crashing with those cards?
It is not bitcoin mining but ethash algoritm that is banned in nvidia driver. But, there was one driver release (cant remember version.. google it) where nvidia forgot turned on ethash ban. Search for this specific driver and try it. This ethash mining ban is worthless if using dummy vga adapter and your cpu has enough pcie lanes (xeon). Nvidia has just made things complicated for all others but miners.
 

Exception

Nothing ado about much
I may have found a partial fix for the crash with Lightwave 2019 and RTX 30xx cards like the RTX 3060, RTX 3070, and RTX 3080 (listing all for search help).

This may work for some. We need testing.

in my case, I have two display adapters, and it allows Lw to run on the non-RTX adapter. Modeler works with thison both adapters.
It allows you to run LW 2019 and do everything, except use the GPU denoiser. ⁠This possible fix was found by Mike of DB&W plugins. Thanks Mike!

⁠Find the file "optix_denoiser.51.dll" in the LW 2019/bin directory. Rename it to "_optix_denoiser.51.dll". Now it should run. You just cannot use GPU denoising.

It may only provide a workaround by having another display adapter in the machine that CAN handle it, and doing this rename. Dunno... it works on the laptop at least as long as the ATI card is 'the boss'. That didn't work before.
 
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Lito

Member
I may have found a partial fix for the crash with Lightwave 2019 and RTX 30xx cards like the RTX 3060, RTX 3070, and RTX 3080 (listing all for search help).

This may work for some. We need testing.

in my case, I have two display adapters, and it allows Lw to run on the non-RTX adapter. Modeler works with thison both adapters.
It allows you to run LW 2019 and do everything, except use the GPU denoiser. ⁠This possible fix was found by Mike of DB&W plugins. Thanks Mike!

⁠Find the file "optix_denoiser.51.dll" in the LW 2019/bin directory. Rename it to "_optix_denoiser.51.dll". Now it should run. You just cannot use GPU denoising.

It may only provide a workaround by having another display adapter in the machine that CAN handle it, and doing this rename. Dunno... it works on the laptop at least as long as the ATI card is 'the boss'. That didn't work before.
Nice find. It didn't work for me with a single 3090, BUT I did get Layout 2019 working by using the optix.6.5.0.dll from LW2020 and putting it in the 2019 bin folder and renaming it to optix.51.dll. I didn't really test it to long I just loaded Layout and it ran with no crashes, did a quick test render and tried to use the GPU denoise and it worked. I don't think I am allowed to post the optix.6.5.0.dll from LW2020, but maybe someone at VizRT will post it for LW2019 users, or another possible workaround is you might be able to sign up for the Nvidia developer program then you can download the 6.5.0 sdk from here: https://developer.nvidia.com/designworks/optix/downloads/legacy and if the dll is in the download you can copy it over to the 2019 bin folder and rename it like I did.
 
Nice find. It didn't work for me with a single 3090, BUT I did get Layout 2019 working by using the optix.6.5.0.dll from LW2020 and putting it in the 2019 bin folder and renaming it to optix.51.dll. I didn't really test it to long I just loaded Layout and it ran with no crashes, did a quick test render and tried to use the GPU denoise and it worked. I don't think I am allowed to post the optix.6.5.0.dll from LW2020, but maybe someone at VizRT will post it for LW2019 users, or another possible workaround is you might be able to sign up for the Nvidia developer program then you can download the 6.5.0 sdk from here: https://developer.nvidia.com/designworks/optix/downloads/legacy and if the dll is in the download you can copy it over to the 2019 bin folder and rename it like I did.
This is one reason why it's always worth owning the latest version even though it has plenty of it's own bugs as well but at least it gives you options.
 
..., or another possible workaround is you might be able to sign up for the Nvidia developer program then you can download the 6.5.0 sdk from here: https://developer.nvidia.com/designworks/optix/downloads/legacy and if the dll is in the download you can copy it over to the 2019 bin folder and rename it like I did.
I was curious, signed up for a developer account and downloaded the 6.5.0 SDK. The signup requires an organization URL - which I no longer can claim (I'm retired). So I used the example Nvidia provided in the signup - literally: "https://nvidia.com". It worked.

The SDK includes optix.6.5.0.dll. Per notes on the site about the SDK: The 6.5.0 SDK requires NVIDIA R435.80 driver or newer.

Now the irony: I don't actually have an Nvidia RTX display card - so I can't test.
 
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