Is Terragen a competing product or a complementary product? (foremost)

prometheus

REBORN
Hi folks,

I want to prevent any unnecessary irration from lightwave users, and also Lightwave staff members ( if there is any?) Vizrt/Newtek staff etc.

As there have been some recent Terragen tutorials posted, and I myself and some others have been working a bit more with it recently, I feel that there is a need to
check how you would receive postings about this landscape software in these forums.

Personally I tend to see Terragen more as complementary for specific task, and can if used right work as a perfect complement with Lightwave as Kevin from planetside have demonstrated in
his free tutorials.

I feel I have some stuff to post with Terragen, and thus this question, and yes..could or should perhaps belong to subforum/third party...so a matter of posting in the right sections.
 

Complementary!
(imo)



 
Which type of Terragen are you guys using: Free, Creative or Pro? Do you need the Pro version of Terragen to be of any use in Lightwave workflows?

What about Terragen Free? Too limited for use with Lightwave?
 

prometheus

REBORN
Which type of Terragen are you guys using: Free, Creative or Pro? Do you need the Pro version of Terragen to be of any use in Lightwave workflows?

What about Terragen Free? Too limited for use with Lightwave?

I am only on the free demoversions, currently 4.1.11
The problem is that this demo doesn´t let me evaluate important things I need to know how it works for me, and that is animation, and also instancing/population to get an idea on how cloned object will look and how it will perform.

Vue on the other hand let´s you get acess to that with it´s demoversion, unfortunately vue is of the radar for me since it went prescription only, and also becasue they destroyed good web page info on it´s features..so it just dropped in interest, and to add to that..Terragen looks better for clouds and lighting and general quality overall, it´s just a bugger that I can´t evaluate it properly and that it´s workflow UI is horrible compared to vue navigation, and UI.

so none is making me happy..
I don´t t think you need the pro version, but should be fine with creative for Lightwave to Terragen workflows..
The limitations for the free version is...

Limitations are..
The free version may only be used for non-commercial purposes, or 30 days of commercial evaluation, and the following basic limitations:

  • Render Size Maximum: 1280×900.
  • Render Detail Maximum: 0.6.
  • Antialiasing Maximum: 6.
  • Maximum Number of Rendered Populations: 3.
  • No Animation.
 

i'd only use Vue for cartoon clouds, it doesn't get very realistic.

subscription cost is Quite alright, but i agree, i'd rather not get into that game.

if your job is rendering clouds, i'd get them all. (LightWave, Houdini, Terragen, Vue)

 

prometheus

REBORN
i'd only use Vue for cartoon clouds, it doesn't get very realistic.

subscription cost is Quite alright, but i agree, i'd rather not get into that game.

if your job is rendering clouds, i'd get them all. (LightWave, Houdini, Terragen, Vue)

Well..I am often criticizing vue for the lousy cloud fractals, but it depends on, it´s about what kind clouds, lower more turbulent clouds, low level over mountains, may work quite nicely, but not cumulus clouds really.

As for the job occupation, I think you could skip vue anyway, and do pretty much all inside of Terragen, lightwave, houdini and blender...vue´s strength is assets, easy setup and navigation, ecosystems..and not only for vegetation, load a couple of car variants, set percentage per car type, and instance them..and you get a decent crowd of that, or animals, and you can spray them in, spray scale, set falloff density very easy etc.

And that on to a fast inside the software sculpt tool to create a main deformed surface, at least when you do not need extreme high res surface detail but more formed landscape mostly, with a lot of other stuff applied on it such as vegetation, or other things.
 

Greenlaw

Eat your peas.
I used to be a big Vue fan, and I used it as a complementary tool to LightWave. Back in my Rhythm & Hues days, we were using these two programs together for commercials and video game cinematics. Afterward, I kept up my personal Vue license for a few years, but I didn't really use it much. When eon-software's website got hacked, I never bothered to renew my subscription. Since then, I've created all my environments directly inside LightWave, with landscape sculpting/texturing support from 3DC or ZBrush, and it's been fine.

If I was getting a third party landscaping program nowadays, it would probably be Terragen, and it would be used in support of LW, like how I used Vue with LW.
 

yeah, the Vue guys messed up, with several things.
might be why the subscription price is quite fair.
who knows what they'll do in the future.
i like Vue / Terragen / LW, for different things.

umbrella_2602.png
 

prometheus

REBORN
I used to be a big Vue fan, and I used it as a complementary tool to LightWave. Back in my Rhythm & Hues days, we were using these two programs together for commercials and video game cinematics. Afterward, I kept up my personal Vue license for a few years, but I didn't really use it much. When eon-software's website got hacked, I never bothered to renew my subscription. Since then, I've created all my environments directly inside LightWave, with landscape sculpting/texturing support from 3DC or ZBrush, and it's been fine.

If I was getting a third party landscaping program nowadays, it would probably be Terragen, and it would be used in support of LW, like how I used Vue with LW.

Regarding vue..

Some three majour issues that brings down interest I think...for me anyway.

I used to skim it´s website ..which was one of the best actually of marketing it with features, all that gone in a wordpress or market add kind o presentation, without in depth features as before, thus..lack of interest if I can not get more in depth perspectives of the new updates.

And still nothing done about the cloud fractals I think.

And then the subscriptions.

These are the big 3 no no´s for me.

On the other hand, i have too many issues with Terragen as well, though value for money would be better spent on that, but it´s not there yet for me, they need to up the game a bit more on the UI, workflow etc...and actually improve the match between rtp render and final render to make it easier to get what you actually tweak the preview to be.
 

related, looking into mixing 3 PBR dirt ground materials now, not fun.


wonder, how u guys go about that?

mix 3 standard materials via 2 material mixer nodes or such ?

 

prometheus

REBORN
related, looking into mixing 3 PBR dirt ground materials now, not fun.


wonder, how u guys go about that?

mix 3 standard materials via 2 material mixer nodes or such ?

Do you mean lightwave or Terragen?

Yes..probably the simplest with multimaterials mixing, forgot you mentioned 3 materials, so sample below is only two materials in lightwave, but adding yet another material mixer and reroute and set proper alpha and you can have 3 as well.
Though I am not an expert on mixing surfaces here, probably better ways.
Also using tools/mixer and a fractal fbm in opacity and additional contrasts tweak on that, and feed taht to the alpha input of the material mixer.

so we got dirt and grass mixed here, just a very fast setup to showcase the nodes only, no further enhancement to look good :)

material mix.jpg
 
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Cool

yes, this is pretty much what i did. stole a PBR-ish node setup to make it, um... more PBR-ish in LW11

pretty much the same. in LW2019 you don't need the middle-node i've used (stolen) here.

nodes.png
 

prometheus

REBORN
To messy :)

Here´s a simple 3 material setup, one larger stone patch, the dirt image, and moss image...

But bump/normal needs to be adressed here as well..


3material mix.jpg
 

prometheus

REBORN
Tedious part is if you want to tweak the materials as one, having to adjust each pbr material, and also...they broke the node editor panel so you have to double click on the pbr material.
Maybe that was fixed in 2020 though.

Nodal fail panel.jpg
 

sure, but you removed the images, there should be at least 4x3 images for this setup, not 4x1  


unless you want a flat result using only color, excluding -normal -roughness -reflection

 

prometheus

REBORN
sure, but you removed the images, there should be at least 4x3 images for this setup, not 4x1  


unless you want a flat result using only color, excluding -normal -roughness -reflection

I didn´t remove any images at all, I just said in the end of post 14..that it needs further bump/normal etc, and they just need to be connected to the right slots or added with additional images, only where needed.
Normal map, perhaps, could work with just bump normal in some situations, depends on.
But not so sure you really need all that complexity in the maps.

Would like to see images of the render though from you :) nodes are not revealing it to me :)
 
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another example by Scott (dlvphoto) posted 05/11/ over at Discord -( edit; found the author )

even more complex, but a LW2020 example
unsure if it is "optimal"

not sure why he didn't use "Mixers"


blended textures - Nodes.png
 
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i sure agree with the PBR setups being tedious.
a simple PBR mixer should've been available, where one could mix multiple PBR textures.

i found that saving the setup to a Material.nodes file helps,
for then to "just" clone it and edit it in notepad. (search-replace)


oh well, could be worse.



 
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