Detailed VT[5] features list

I am becoming quite confused. Let me see if I have this straight. I paid for my VT5 upgrade in June 2006. Then in the beginning of 2007 I was told that the upgrade that I paid for was delayed because there was a breakthrough and by waiting longer I would be able to use virtual sets, and that it would be worth the wait. Now I am being told that I can not use virtual sets unless I pay another $1995. in order to use the same virtual sets that someone who upgrades today will pay without being out their money for a year and a half. Am I right in thinking this is very unfair.
 
KHS-TV said:
Uhhh... I don't understand. Why would I not be able to do multiple text overlays with the old card? Those aren't hardware sources. Text is software-generated.


I 'think' he is referring to multiple live DSKs. Multiple grfx on screen.

I think.
 
Jim_C said:
I 'think' he is referring to multiple live DSKs. Multiple grfx on screen.

I think.


That is correct Jim. Not just Downstream Keys anymore but also Upstream Keys tied to each input. Title Template "exportion" from the CG Designer allows for some really powerful titling capabilities for those doing live broadcasts. The "405 Traffic Cam" input will always have the correct overlay now without having to change the DSK layer. A commonly asked for feature was to have a Station ID Bug and a graphic layer up at the same time. That is now easily possible.
 
Picking up on a point brought up earlier....

If in 2 weeks, a month, I decide to upgrade to VTPro, it will be $2495 then, plus the $500 I prepaid equaling $3000...?? Correct?

And in 2 weeks a VT4 non-pro user who did not pre order, can also upgrade to a VTPro card and VT5 for $2500...? $500 less...?

Shouldn't every pre-order person have a non expiring $1995 price? Otherwise it costs us $500 more for having faith.

I may be missing fine print tho, cause shirley that does not seem right.

Thanks again for any info...
Jim
 
PIZAZZ said:
That is correct Jim. Not just Downstream Keys anymore but also Upstream Keys tied to each input. Title Template "exportion" from the CG Designer allows for some really powerful titling capabilities for those doing live broadcasts. The "405 Traffic Cam" input will always have the correct overlay now without having to change the DSK layer. A commonly asked for feature was to have a Station ID Bug and a graphic layer up at the same time. That is now easily possible.

To be clear, though, I do not need a VT Pro card to do any of that, right? All of that stuff deals with computer-generated sources, so that shouldn't be relying on the I/O card at all. Also, I'd really appreciate it if you could answer these questions for me, Jef (or anybody else who knows!):

  • Can I have two live sources in a virtual set, then put one of those embedded sources on preview and use a DVE or a hard cut to switch to that raw input with the VT[2] card?
  • Can I use a DVE do a hard cut between live sets if each live set only has one live source embedded in it using the VT[2] card?

I'm sure lots of VT[2]/VT[3] upgraders would find that information useful.
 
Jim_C said:
Picking up on a point brought up earlier....

If in 2 weeks, a month, I decide to upgrade to VTPro, it will be $2495 then, plus the $500 I prepaid equaling $3000...?? Correct?

And in 2 weeks a VT4 non-pro user who did not pre order, can also upgrade to a VTPro card and VT5 for $2500...? $500 less...?

Shouldn't every pre-order person have a non expiring $1995 price? Otherwise it costs us $500 more for having faith.

I may be missing fine print tho, cause shirley that does not seem right.

Thanks again for any info...
Jim

I second that. In fact, I think NewTek should create a new SKU for a hardware-only upgrade that takes into account the people who already paid for the software upgrade. That'd make the hardware upgrade ~$1,500 instead of $2,500 for people who already have the software. Fair, no?
 
kleima said:
Steve,

What I said was posted by Paul earlier in this thread:

Originally Posted by Paul Lara
Yes, the VT33 card only has two video circuits, where the VT PRO card (which began shipping with VT[4]) has three. For example, The VT PRO card makes it possible to have a double-box 2-shot, and still do a DVE away to another source. Using an older card with virtual sets will limit what you can do.
I am not really clear how you arrive at the conclusion below from reading Paul's note above? I think you may be reading too much into it.

You are not correct about not being able to transition between to live set enabled inputs. It will do this on the older card, and you can put an effect or other input onto one of the virtual monitors at the same time, however, you cannot put two inputs onto two virtual monitors.
In his quote, Paul does not really state 'you can transition between two LiveSet enabled sources with the 33mHz card. ' I'd be glad if you could, but have seen nothing to support that conclusion. By contrast, I have been explicitly told not to count on it, and have other reasons for doubt.

I'm a conservative fellow. I opt for the safer bet, rather than have someone expect it will do so and then be disappointed. I think NewTek's comments have been made with a similar caution.
 
I think NewTek's comments have been made with a similar caution.

I would have hoped that by now they could throw caution to the wind and tell us exactly what older cards can or cannot do and stop dancing. Isn't this about ready to ship?

Also there is no mention of any bug fixes for VT4 so far only Live Sets. Based on past performance I don't feel confident that any issues are being addressed for VT5 that existed in VT4 but rather time is being spent on Virtual Sets. Not a big deal, I just need a refund.

As for VT5 and picking up a Pro card, why? That card will never do HD. Put the money towards a Tricaster if you want to do that kind of work. At least you know you will have something that has the full attention of Newtek (at least for now).

Ivan
 
Ivan said:
Not a big deal, I just need a refund.
You're asking in the wrong place then, Ivan. A community forum isn't in a position to grant that request, and it is a dead certainty NewTek won't consider a request here to have any standing.

Assuming you've not previously availed yourself of any part of the product purchase, a refund under these (lengthy) circumstances doesn't seem all that unreasonable imho. Maybe try approaching Sales, then let us know the result.
 
You're right, that may have been a little out of line.

The more I think about it I think that if you are doing this kind of work and you have a VT3 card you will be better off going with a TriCaster than upgrading to the Pro Card. If you still have the VT3 card it is likely that you will need to upgrade your computer as well to take full advantage of the new features. At that point you could have your old VT and a new Tricaster couldn't you??

Ivan
 
Some vailid complaints were posted here, especially by Steveg. It sounds like this Live Set stuff should have been used for VT6. If it were, we would have probably had VT5 in our hands earlier this year, since Newtek sites their groundbreaking virtual set technology as the exciting reason for the long delay.

Since many of us use VT4 only for editing and not for live shoots. This new technology should have been saved for VT[6], which should only be bundled with the new hardware. The way it is being done now is causing major delays for live virtual set features that many , if not most of us do not use.

SteveG made a valid point. We were told that the long wait was caused by the great discovery, which makes us feel better about the wait, and then find out that we really cannot fully utilize this technology without paying an additional $2500. So, most of us are waiting a lot longer for no good reason.
 
Again, I agree with Jef that many editors might conclude that for them, the card swap may not represent the best option.

(Heck, even some of the live users may opt to keep that $2k on tap for the day when we an end-to-end HD live-switching solution arrives.)
 
Tony R said:
Since many of us use VT4 only for editing and not for live shoots. This new technology should have been saved for VT[6], which should only be bundled with the new hardware. The way it is being done now is causing major delays for live virtual set features that many , if not most of us do not use.

...but many more DO use it for live shoots. I'm very glad this was put in [5], and I'm equally glad [5] isn't technically forcing me to get new hardware. The whole idea behind VT for Windows was that you could get new software without having to always upgrade the hardware. VT[5] does not absolutely need to hardware, so why force people to get new hardware? I just wish NewTek would release the limitations introduced by using the old hardware.

What exactly would be ground-breaking and worth upgrading in [5] if they hadn't included LiveSet?
 
KHS-TV said:
.What exactly would be ground-breaking and worth upgrading in [5] if they hadn't included LiveSet?

Hi-Def editing.
Not ground breaking in the scope of the industry I guess, but until I see LiveSets in real action , I am respectfully withholding my 'ground breaking' moniker there also.

But yea, Speed Edit in VT is a biggie for those who did not buy a separate SE.
 
KHS-TV said:
What exactly would be ground-breaking and worth upgrading in [5] if they hadn't included LiveSet?
I'm sure there's a long list of new features and updates, but apart from the whole LiveSet thing, for some of use getting SpeedEdit into VT is a biggie - it gives us at least some sort of a beachead in the HD production realm, even though the hdwe. itself is limited to SD. It is a lot better than VT-Edit in many other ways, too.

This thread began with a partial list:

ftp://ftp.newtek.com/pub/VT5/VT5_Features.pdf
 
SBowie said:
I'm sure there's a long list of new features and updates, but apart from the whole LiveSet thing, for some of use getting SpeedEdit into VT is a biggie - it gives us at least some sort of a beachead in the HD production realm, even though the hdwe. itself is limited to SD. It is a lot better than VT-Edit in many other ways, too.

This thread began with a partial list:

ftp://ftp.newtek.com/pub/VT5/VT5_Features.pdf

Thanks for the link, though I have already seen it before. The majority of that list seems to be items generated by LiveSet and SpeedEDIT. There are a few other things such as better aspect ratio handling and QuickTime support in DDRs, but would those features really be worth paying $600 to get without LiveSet?

Having an entire product relying on having SpeedEDIT to get people to upgrade would've bombed; in fact, I remember many people complaining because the only new feature they knew about was SpeedEDIT. Like it or not SpeedEDIT is a post-production thing. Without LiveSet, VT[5] would've essentially been VT[4] with a new editor, giving no real live production enhancements. For those arguing that many VT users are editors and that LiveSet should've been pushed off to VT[6], SpeedEDIT is already available! If you only edit and want SpeedEDIT now, buy it! It even works with VT[4] now!

As for my use of the word ground-breaking, I meant in terms of VT features, not in terms of the industry as a whole. From what I've seen, LiveSet should let me do a lot more (though I don't know how much more because NewTek has yet to say exactly what limitations there are using a VT33 card with VT[5]...)
 
KHS-TV said:
(though I don't know how much more because NewTek has yet to say exactly what limitations there are using a VT33 card with VT[5]...)
Someone should ask them. (Yikes - ducks and runs!) :D
 
KHS-TV said:
Having an entire product relying on having SpeedEDIT to get people to upgrade would've bombed; in fact, I remember many people complaining because the only new feature they knew about was SpeedEDIT. Like it or not SpeedEDIT is a post-production thing. Without LiveSet, VT[5] would've essentially been VT[4] with a new editor, giving no real live production enhancements.

Though ironically, a number of people just in this thread alone seem to have done just that. Upgrading to VT[5] sight unseen, back in late spring of 2006, with the only promises that I recall being mentioned at NAB 2006 for VT[5] being SpeedEDIT and 2 DSKs. (And VT[5] is now back to one DSK, ironically enough.)

PT Barnum was a very wise man.
 
Future VT[6] PCIe 2.0

Does NewTek foresee the implementation of PCIe 2.0 bus as the future for the VT[x] card?

Just Curious! :vticon:
 
Last edited:
mixmasterwes said:
Does NewTek foresee the implementation of PCIe 2.0 bus as the future for the VT[x] card?

Just Curious! :vticon:

Uhm... we can't even get what's in VT[5] out of NewTek, so I highly doubt anybody will be able to answer questions about VT[6]... ;)
 
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