Constant shut downs of modeler 2019.1.5 when switching from layout to modeler.

prometheus

REBORN
Hi folks,

I´ve just having so many issues now, it´s almost impossible to switch from layout to modeler if I have selected a model in layout, it shuts down modeler instantly, no crash,..but just shutting modeler down...making the workflow of working with a model in modeler and layout impossible.

Not sure if there was a quick fix in the hub settings or configurations or something?
Or if I really need to delete configs and refresh that?

Windows 10
Lightwave 2019.1.5 64 bit.
Avast antivirus.

Upgrading to 2020 Is Not an option.

Support and bug reporting, why, and where..and what to expect? in these times?
 

Sensei

TrueArt Support
The first question you would see from support "did you try LW 2020? Does it work in newer version?".. Then immediate closure of the report about bug in obsolete LW.
IT companies, except e.g. Microsoft etc. similar big IT, never ever fix bugs in obsolete versions. Fixes are always implemented as new version of the software.

Install LW 2020, and try trial. Always remember to shutdown hub if you're switching between multiple LW versions.
Don't run multiple LW versions at the same time on the same OS (unless VMBox etc.)

I´ve just having so many issues now, it´s almost impossible to switch from layout to modeler if I have selected a model in layout,

Problems don't appear from nowhere. If "yesterday" (e.g. month, year ago) everything was fine, now it is not, its reason to believe something has changed: OS update, gfx update, antivirus update etc. etc. changed, and started influencing stuff. Or LWO object, which you're using. 3rd party plugin updated?

1) Disable Internet, shutdown antivirus, and check if it fixed issue.

2) Install virtual machine e.g. VMBox, and install there LW, to see if it has the same issue.

3) Install trial on VMBox. You probably will be forever able to do it, and trial will never expire. Just make duplicate of virtual partition in the right moment. It works with ANY software..
 
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Some recent Win 10 updates are known to have impacts on display drivers. The updates are at least one of the following:

KB5000843
KB5001337
KB5001330

Problems include FPS drops for games and GFX app oddities. The "trigger" is having VSync enabled in the NVidia driver settings. Naturally, for games, disabling vsync can destroy FPS performance.

Nvidia's advice has recently been to de-install the updates. However, Microsoft is rolling out a hotfix for the problem.

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/ne...y-fix-for-windows-10-kb5001330-gaming-issues/

So, if you have either of these updates installed you might try de-installing them and testing LW again.

The other thing to look at is your display drivers. Nvidia drivers in the 460 or higher series are really buggy. So google your display driver version number to see if it has lots of reported problems. Definitely do this if you ever let Windows Update update your Nvidia display drivers.
 

prometheus

REBORN
The first question you would see from support "did you try LW 2020? Does it work in newer version?".. Then immediate closure of the report about bug in obsolete LW.
IT companies, except e.g. Microsoft etc. similar big IT, never ever fix bugs in obsolete versions. Fixes are always implemented as new version of the software.

Install LW 2020, and try trial. Always remember to shutdown hub if you're switching between multiple LW versions.
Don't run multiple LW versions at the same time on the same OS (unless VMBox etc.)



Problems don't appear from nowhere. If "yesterday" (e.g. month, year ago) everything was fine, not is not, its reason to believe something has changed: OS update, gfx update, antivirus update etc. etc. changed, and started influencing stuff. Or LWO object, which you're using. 3rd party plugin updated?

1) Disable Internet, shutdown antivirus, and check if it fixed issue.

2) Install virtual machine e.g. VMBox, and install there LW, to see if it has the same issue.

3) Install trial on VMBox. You probably will be forever able to do it, and trial will never expire. Just make duplicate of virtual partition in the right moment. It works with ANY software..
Thanks for all the advice sensei.

I will keep a note on what you also said in post 3

But Installing of a trial will not even happen Ever with 2020, not from what I have heard about so many issues and not with it´s current direction in development, it´s status and uncertainty, so no..not even gonna try that one out, it was too little feature enhancements for my taste anywya, and just to sort this bug out..I think there is ways around than definitely having to upgrade.

2021 or other versions perhaps for upgrades, but not this one..I´ll wait this one out, if it´s the end of the cycle..then it´s the end, I will go on with something else.
I would probably just use older lw versions for some stuff and only use lw 2019 for the rendering part in such case.
 

prometheus

REBORN
Some recent Win 10 updates are known to have impacts on display drivers. The updates are at least one of the following:

KB5000843
KB5001337
KB5001330

Problems include FPS drops for games and GFX app oddities. The "trigger" is having VSync enabled in the NVidia driver settings. Naturally, for games, disabling vsync can destroy FPS performance.

Nvidia's advice has recently been to de-install the updates. However, Microsoft is rolling out a hotfix for the problem.

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/ne...y-fix-for-windows-10-kb5001330-gaming-issues/

So, if you have either of these updates installed you might try de-installing them and testing LW again.

The other thing to look at is your display drivers. Nvidia drivers in the 460 or higher series are really buggy. So google your display driver version number to see if it has lots of reported problems. Definitely do this if you ever let Windows Update update your Nvidia display drivers.


Thanks eokeisler, will take notes of those win 10 updates.
I am not sure iv windows updates those Nvidia display drivers, I don´t think it does..I usually update the Nvidia game ready drivers manually and not automaticly, I´ll get info when they are ready to download, but I do it manually, if windows disregards that...I am not sure.

 
Thanks eokeisler, will take notes of those win 10 updates.
I am not sure iv windows updates those Nvidia display drivers, I don´t think it does..I usually update the Nvidia game ready drivers manually and not automaticly, I´ll get info when they are ready to download, but I do it manually, if windows disregards that...I am not sure.

Just so I completely understand the problem:

You can replicate the problem in 2019.1.5 by:

  1. Launch Layout, giving you the default empty scene.
  2. Load an object into the empty scene
  3. In Layout, select the object
  4. Try to switch to Modeler but modeler immediately exits.
Or do you:

  1. Launch Layout
  2. Load a specific scene
  3. In Layout, select an object in the scene
  4. Try to switch to Modeler but modeler immediately exits.
If it's the 2nd scenario, does this happen for all scenes you test?

Such an odd problem. I can't duplicate on my 2019.1.5 install. But I admit I rarely use that version.

I continue to stick with 2015.3. But even with that version I get occasional weird Hub behavior where it will launch a duplicate instance of Modeler or Layout.
 

prometheus

REBORN
Just so I completely understand the problem:

You can replicate the problem in 2019.1.5 by:

  1. Launch Layout, giving you the default empty scene.
  2. Load an object into the empty scene
  3. In Layout, select the object
  4. Try to switch to Modeler but modeler immediately exits.
Or do you:

  1. Launch Layout
  2. Load a specific scene
  3. In Layout, select an object in the scene
  4. Try to switch to Modeler but modeler immediately exits.
If it's the 2nd scenario, does this happen for all scenes you test?

Such an odd problem. I can't duplicate on my 2019.1.5 install. But I admit I rarely use that version.

I continue to stick with 2015.3. But even with that version I get occasional weird Hub behavior where it will launch a duplicate instance of Modeler or Layout.

Can´t say exactly, but as I recall..the early days of using lightwave 2019.1.5 wasn´t this buggy, in fact quite stable on that front, so probably configs, plugins disturbing, or windows updates or virus, or antivirus.

Will try the basics as you say.

Yes...I am sticking with 2015.3, but mostly because of 32 bit plugins that I can´t use otherwise.
And yes..just like you, I get these double instances of modeler or layout when starting up or swithing to the layout I think, that one annoys me as well.
 

Sensei

TrueArt Support
But Installing of a trial will not even happen Ever with 2020, not from what I have heard about so many issues and not with it´s current direction in development, it´s status and uncertainty, so no..not even gonna try that one out, it was too little feature enhancements for my taste anywya, and just to sort this bug out..I think there is ways around than definitely having to upgrade.

2021 or other versions perhaps for upgrades, but not this one..I´ll wait this one out, if it´s the end of the cycle..then it´s the end, I will go on with something else.
I would probably just use older lw versions for some stuff and only use lw 2019 for the rendering part in such case.

You don't understand... 1) there is no sense reporting bug in LW 2019, if it was already fixed in LW 2020 2) there is sense of reporting bug only if it is still present in LW 2020 3) it is up to you to check whether bug is still present in the current LW 2020 4) LW developers won't do it for you 5) if you will write LW bug report "I have bug in LW 2019" they will immediately close it, without even checking it, because you have not checked it in LW 2020, even trial. 6) they won't do it for you 7) you're the most interested in fixing issue, because you have the issue, not they.. 8) do nothing, and bug will never being fixed.
I had bugs which were in apps for 15-20 years. Nobody reported, so nobody fixed them, until accidental finding them..

"Do nothing" is typical route for end users. Even if they have bug.
"Do nothing" is typical route for developers of app. They won't search for unknown bugs, unless end users will report them. In the latest release, not some obsolete version. What for waste time for searching for bug which was already fixed.. ?
 
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prometheus

REBORN
You don't understand... 1) there is no sense reporting bug in LW 2019, if it was already fixed in LW 2020 2) there is sense of reporting bug only if it is still present in LW 2020 3) it is up to you to check whether bug is still present in the current LW 2020 4) LW developers won't do it for you 5) if you will write LW bug report "I have bug in LW 2019" they will immediately close it, without even checking it, because you have not checked it in LW 2020, even trial. 6) they won't do it for you 7) you're the most interested in fixing issue, because you have the issue, not they.. 8) do nothing, and bug will never being fixed.
I had bugs which were in apps for 15-20 years. Nobody reported, so nobody fixed them, until accidental finding them..

"Do nothing" is typical route for end users. Even if they have bug.
"Do nothing" is typical route for developers of app. They won't search for unknown bugs, unless end users will report them. In the latest release, not some obsolete version. What for waste time for searching for bug which was already fixed.. ?
No you don´t understand this properly it seems..
what did I just wrote?
I am pretty aware of that it´s a dead on of reporting for 2019, that´s why I wrote"why" very aware of it´s of no use, accompanied with where to also adress any eventual report if that time comes.

Do nothing? Ivé not mentioned anything about " do nothing as for reporting bugs, except for the obvious..which you said yoursel, you can´t do nothing about reporting a 2019 bug..right.

Had Lightwave development been in place and a transparency about development, and had I found this issue early in my lightwave 2019 period, I would bug report, it´s a completely different situation right now.

I said, I won´t even consider to upgrade to 2020, period, if 2021 comes along with a development team in place and a true intent of developing it further, a different story for my intentions to upgrade.

This isn´t a question about reporting a bug, perhaps my initial post was misleading, it was more of sarkasm, not that I need to find out If I should bug report it, that we already have covered.

If I can´t solve the issues with drivers, windows or re-installing, I will let it all settle as long as it takes, that´s all, the gain of upgrading from my perspective vs solving this issue and some others and introducing other issues as well, and the uncertainty of the Lightwave future, it´s not worth it from my perspective, read my perspective.
 

Tim Parsons

Active member
Hi folks,

I´ve just having so many issues now, it´s almost impossible to switch from layout to modeler if I have selected a model in layout, it shuts down modeler instantly, no crash,..but just shutting modeler down...making the workflow of working with a model in modeler and layout impossible.
Yeah that was happening to me as well with 2019 - so annoying and no rhyme or reason to it - poof, Modeler is gone! Thankfully not an issue with LW2020. :) Of the three PBR Lightwave versions, 2020 is the best IMO.
 

prometheus

REBORN
Yeah that was happening to me as well with 2019 - so annoying and no rhyme or reason to it - poof, Modeler is gone! Thankfully not an issue with LW2020. :) Of the three PBR Lightwave versions, 2020 is the best IMO.
I´ll wait, till the version after 2020....if that comes out, 2020 isn´t gonna happen, no way.
 

prometheus

REBORN
Fully understand - it wasn't a feature rich release. :)

I think it came in that order...

-Too little features and focus on stuff I don´t want them to focus on, from my perspective, and the fact we never saw modeling enhancement in layout.
-Then the drastic change of development team, followed by very bad statement on the blog.
-Followed by reported issues.
-My Own economic situation currently
-Enhancement in other software that competes.

All those are factors, but now I should stop, we have too many of these postings ..I recognize that.
Everything will be just fine if they hire very skilled coders and have a management with passion to develop Lightwave further, so I can wait maybe 3 years before bumping back seriously in to upgrading ...but it has to earn that privilege in order to sustain me as a customer, and it´s also about how they talk about their product.

Havent used lightwave for a day now, maybe tomorrow, did som rebooting and updating of windows and drivers, and will try that initially, if not better...uninstall and try again a fresh install I think, if not that..try and work with modeling sessions and scene setups in such partnership in 2015, until I need to render with tech from Lighwave 2019.
 

prometheus

REBORN
Currently lw 2019.1.5 is back to the a much more stable state, and the crashes seem to have been temporarely, could be some driver, window update or something else interfering.

No 2020 upgrade needed.
 

Snosrap

Active member
Over the years of using LW with the hub, I have noticed that sometimes hub issues seem to resolve themselves after a while. I definitely think that is what you were experiencing because I had the same issue with 2019. All you had to do is have layout open with your scene and then jump over to modeler to adjust a model and then “poof”, modeler was gone.
 
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