Any recent info/rumors on LW 2021/22 ?

lwanmtr

Lwanmtr
I think a lot of LightWavers in some ways are experience the "five stages of greif" I know I have / am 😄

Denial - The users who still think LW is alive and kicking "Vizrt have not said anything else. Why would they end it?" etc.
Anger - Now angry at all those who says LW is dead and that you should move on. Or are angry at Vizrt / Newtek, who are probably just doing what's right for their business.
Bargaining - Trying to defend their choose of staying with the software. "With some plugins it can be used for a long time. Maybe there is something new on it's way" etc.
Depression - You realise the LW era is really over. Get sad, and maybe even feel regret that you didn't jump ship earlier. "I'm to old or to invested in LW to learn anything new"
Acception - You start to accept. It is what it is. LW will still work for many years and there's a lot of other softwares to learn and some are even free (if money is the issue).

I'm at acception. LightWave is great, I really like 2020 and it works great for the most part.
It will definitely take a while (for me) to reach the same knowledge in another 3D software but in the meantime I can work on with LW. Or mix.

And if LightWave in the meantime would reappear in a new, better version, fantastic!

There is still a lil denial (or hope that its not dead)...never hit depression..but am delving into acceptance...I still use LW for some things, but rendering i will probably do with Renderman in blender or houdini

If they release a new version I may even pay the upgrade price again...but Im not holding my breath.
 

quakebox

Active member
There is still a lil denial (or hope that its not dead)...never hit depression..but am delving into acceptance...I still use LW for some things, but rendering i will probably do with Renderman in blender or houdini

If they release a new version I may even pay the upgrade price again...but Im not holding my breath.
Yes some are in denial and I know deep down that LW is fading I use Maya for everything but I keep LightWave installed maybe I need it for something.

To be honest LightWave is not worth the investment anymore the tools are not on par with Maya not the modeling or the rigging. it can help a generalist 3D artist create interesting stuff. But if you aim to really rig and animate my choice goes to Maya or Max.

The main reason is the undo system of Layout is broken and when you open the Dopesheet or the Node Editor Layout slows down. Also Modeler Catmul-Clark algorithm doesn't produce smooth results like Maya or Max.

The whole CG market became boring with Maya as the dominant and Autodesk buying any serious competition, LightWave and modo fading I don't know the future but I will stick with Maya as my main tool who knows what the future holds.
 
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Rayek

Well-known member
The whole CG market became boring with Maya as the dominant and Autodesk buying any serious competition, LightWave and modo fading I don't know the future but I will stick with Maya as my main tool who knows what the future holds.

Not entirely true: Houdini's entry into the market has been interesting (as has Blender). I am learning Houdini, and it is quite exciting.
 

quakebox

Active member
Not entirely true: Houdini's entry into the market has been interesting (as has Blender). I am learning Houdini, and it is quite exciting.
I completly agree with you about Houdini and Blender but I tried Houdini it's extra hard to model with compaired to LightWave and Maya. Bender is just not for me each time I try it I remove it.

I'm not saying LightWave is not capable it's nice for speed modeling and quick scene setup you can animate and rig with it and completly avoid Maya if you are eager enough. For example I modeled and proceadurally textured this gamepad in under 2 hours just before I post this replay this can take more time in Maya.
 

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lwanmtr

Lwanmtr
Modeler is still my choice when it comes to modeling..I can take those into any other program I want, thanks to fbx and obj.
Layout for me is still more intuitive in setting up a scene and animating cameras, so I still use that where I can.

Houdini is only for those who wish to have their heads explode because it takes more steps to do some tings that LW just does...Blender, it does take a short time to get over the 'im using blender' aspect, but it works really well for most things.
 

Tim Parsons

Well-known member
I'm not saying LightWave is not capable it's nice for speed modeling and quick scene setup you can animate and rig with it and completly avoid Maya if you are eager enough. For example I modeled and proceadurally textured this gamepad in under 2 hours just before I post this replay this can take more time in Maya.
Yeah - LW is more than capable for fast simple stuff. Would you use it in a major special FX movie like Transformers or something - NO. If Maya was cheap or free everyone would be using it. What was so nice about LW is that it was reasonably priced for the feature set. Now with Blender out there for free, it lost any economic edge it may have had on the competition. Of course it's slow pace of development didn't help either. The sad thing is, I think they were really starting to turn things around and then the plug was pulled. :(
 

RPSchmidt

Active member
Yeah - LW is more than capable for fast simple stuff. Would you use it in a major special FX movie like Transformers or something - NO. If Maya was cheap or free everyone would be using it. What was so nice about LW is that it was reasonably priced for the feature set. Now with Blender out there for free, it lost any economic edge it may have had on the competition. Of course it's slow pace of development didn't help either. The sad thing is, I think they were really starting to turn things around and then the plug was pulled. :(
Some good points re: cost versus Blender, current feature set and the slow pace of development.

I disagree heartily on your "would you use it on a major special FX movie:" note, because obviously, Lightwave has been used on (or was the primary software in the workflow) on numerous motion pictures with major special FX.

Maybe not Transformers; but I would take an Avatar, Titanic, Lord of the Rings, Blackhawk Down, or Pan's Labyrinth over any Transformers movie every day and twice on Sunday ;) (just to name a few).

Not to say that Maya and/or 3d Studio Max didn't also have their roles to play in those films. That just reinforces the fact that the VFX workflow on a feature film is in no way carried by a single software... not even the mighty Maya or 3d Studio Max.
 

Shabazzy

LightWave Fan Boi
....That just reinforces the fact that the VFX workflow on a feature film is in no way carried by a single software...
This is singularly the only comment in the whole of this thread so far, that is actually based on fact, truth and intelligence.

It is without doubt the smartest comment so far and truly demonstrates the difference between someone who knows what they're talking about and someone who's talking a huge pile of ....... .

It's just a shame that, on this thread's topic, people like RPSchmidt are in the minority.
 
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prometheus

REBORN
Not entirely true: Houdini's entry into the market has been interesting (as has Blender). I am learning Houdini, and it is quite exciting.

Same here, I will spend more time in houdini and blender, less time in Lightwave I suppose.
When Vizrt/Newte start stating they will continue to develop Lightwave..and follow that by providing they are hiring or got a team in place to do so, then I may consider changing back in time spent in there.
 

prometheus

REBORN
Nodes are your friend....you must give in..become one with them

Nodes are like politics, you have to comprimize with your effectivness and direct artistry, ..the very statement of "give in" it´s just a lubrication mantra serving as lubrication for how to deal with it´s obnoxius way of working, just as you have to compromise with other politicians if you are one yourself, to get anything done.

if we should be really flexible and harsch about it, don´t complain about the tools or the framework, just write the darn code yoursel, the software yourself, coding is your friend..of course it will to an even larger extent comprimize the time and effort you can put in to be artistic.

I would be a little happier if the nodal UX/UI would be better designed in Lightwave, moving a node inbetween other nodes and it should connect, as it does in blender, muting should be there as well.

I really don´t have any big issues of learning nodes, it´s just by it´s nature it will never be able to compete speed wise and easy to access wise with tools already setup to work with adjustable parameters.
Old hv volumetrics hypertextures, You choose the texture from a list, new volumetrics, you have to click on edit nodes, locate a texture in the nodal interface, click to add, connect the texture to the output...blah.
Sure it is flexible, but takes too long time for some basic stuff, same with texturing in pbr materials where texture layers are removed and not an option, you need to dive in to nodes and add textures and connect.
 
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lwanmtr

Lwanmtr
I hate auto connecting nodes in blender...specially when im just moving nodes around and accidentally drop one in the wrong spot and blender crashes as a result...happends often if I have IPR running.
I like nodes in LW..but I can see also having the simple texture buttons too.
 

prometheus

REBORN
I hate auto connecting nodes in blender...specially when im just moving nodes around and accidentally drop one in the wrong spot and blender crashes as a result...happends often if I have IPR running.
I like nodes in LW..but I can see also having the simple texture buttons too.

The gain of being able to connect a node between other nodes, in my opinion..Outweight the accidental actions you make.
You have to learn to be more careful and arrange nodes properly and have a decent zoom level and learn to avoid connecting nodes where you do not want´t them.
For Lightwave nodes, there is No other way than having to disconnect nodes, and add, and reconnect, the general workflow is thus far slower and unease in it´s nature.

Lightwave need to get back to it´s philosophy of beeing so easy to setup up things, like legacy hypervoxels and adding textures to pbr material, and also some displacement settings, it strayed away too far when not implementing the nodal stuff properly with the old way.
 

slacer

Active member
The gain of being able to connect a node between other nodes, in my opinion..Outweight the accidental actions you make.
You have to learn to be more careful and arrange nodes properly and have a decent zoom level and learn to avoid connecting nodes where you do not want´t them.
A software should be robust and not explode because of an user mistake. It is not mine sweeper...

This is the reason for UI tester. They won't avoid the spots which tend to explode. They try even harder to get these kind of errors, once they appear in an application under test.

I have more than 25 years of experience in software development and the behaviour of 'learning to avoid things' is an alarming situation.

Ok, if the software is no longer under development and you need to use it, I would go with your suggestion. But it should be easy to open an issue and provide a step by step descriptions about how to replicate this nasty bug.
 

prometheus

REBORN
A software should be robust and not explode because of an user mistake. It is not mine sweeper...

This is the reason for UI tester. They won't avoid the spots which tend to explode. They try even harder to get these kind of errors, once they appear in an application under test.

I have more than 25 years of experience in software development and the behaviour of 'learning to avoid things' is an alarming situation.

Ok, if the software is no longer under development and you need to use it, I would go with your suggestion. But it should be easy to open an issue and provide a step by step descriptions about how to replicate this nasty bug.

Of course the software shouldn´t crash, but this is from my experience marginally, in fact..I have never crashed blender with nodal wrong connections when "accidently" placing a node inbetween, with lightwave however that is not possible since you can´t put a node inbetween as a lack of functionality...but I have Crashed Lightwave Numerous times by just plugin a node in to the wrong input, I can count that many times over and over with my hands, but None on a single finger within blender.

I´ll pick the gain I get as I said any time of the day, despite the notion of a software shouldn´t crash compared to that I do not get blender to crash unlike Lightwave.

But I am one of the lucky ones, as luck must be hidden somewhere in how I use it ..what version etc.
I would suspect pretty much Every software suffers from alarming situations to a certain degree, one more nasty than the other.
 
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prometheus

REBORN
There are some goodies with Lightwave nodes though compared to blender, we have so many more nodes to choose from, and how we can filter acess it from the left menu is in my opinion much nicer than always having to use the drop down list in blender, I think there was at a time a way to use verticle tabs to acess certain node categories in blender, perhaps still possible, but that isn´t particulary nice for me..since I loath any vertical tab UI that has vertical running text labels.

Just compare how you can choose textures in the nodal interface of lightwave, and how you have to go to textures and browse in the list to choose texture, much nicer in Lightwave.

Zoom limit, lack of nodal inbetween auto connections, lack of mute nodes, lack of proper mouse control such as middle pan...those are some stuff though that doesn´t make Lightwave a nice experience when it comes to working with nodes, and neither that lack of exposed nodes ..which should pop up in a panel to the right..had it not been broken.
 

lwanmtr

Lwanmtr
Indeed, LW's node editor needs a bit of work, specially in how it 'cleans' them up with you hit tidy nodes. But having the node list on the left is alot better to me, rather than having to constantly get a menu, search, choose.

Having the texture button on the pbr materials would simplify things, yeah, cause it could just be a direct interface to the node, without having to open the editor.

The number of nodes we have in LW is definitely alor more than blender, even with renderman....Im able to acheive alot more variation in LW and unlike blender or houdini it doesnt freak out about plugging a node into an input it wasnt supposed to (in fact you can get some fun results that way).
 

prometheus

REBORN
and unlike blender or houdini it doesnt freak out about plugging a node into an input it wasnt supposed to (in fact you can get some fun results that way).

agree on some things..but not this..
lightwave does freak out when plugging in to some nodes it wasn't suppose to as well.

dont you dear to try that perspective with vdb's in lightwave.
 
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