Allow Double Alpha Wipes

[ScorpioProd]

Today we have better tools for creating graphic content for this system. The computers render faster, LW is better, you have nice particle generators like Particle illusion.If Eric had this stuff back then I think that he would have made more sets.

Yeah, but is there a better LW plug-in for DVE creation?

I remind everyone that ALL DVEs currently are SD-only, beyond the tiny subset of non-fancy ones included with the current SE (and current SE-VT).

 

[joseburgos]

No there is not a new DVE plug-in and I have asked about it also.
Need a new one that can make HD DVE's and be nice if it rendered faster

But in the mean time, I really wish Newtek would at mattes to SE.
Many, many people have asked forever and it just never happens.
At this point, I have to assume it is one huge task to implement but so what.
We want it (hands on hips with mean face).

Take care,

 

[Rich Deustachio]

I remember before they "rewrote the editor from the ground up" we all thought there was going to be some large features added. One of them that has been asked for a long time is the subject of this thread but was never added.

So I am guessing that it would take another major upgrade, rewriting the editor to make this happen and with the current focus on Tricaster I don't see it happening anytime soon.

Please Newtek employees, don't post that you put equal time into SE as you do Trcaster because from where I am standing I don't see it, and I believe other feel the same way.

 

[SBowie]

Please Newtek employees, don't post that you put equal time into SE as you do Trcaster because from where I am standing I don't see it, and I believe other feel the same way.

Speaking just from my own perspective, I'm sure no-one at NewTek is glad another SE update hasn't arrived long since. This by no means indicates, however, that a good deal of work hasn't been done on it that has yet to see the light of day (but doubtless will when it is completely ready). It would be a mistake to conclude, as well, that it is anything like as simple as 'pulling the SE dev team away to work on TC'. The fact is that SE is not just a standalone product, but is intertwined with the entire lineup ... including major future products.

It's a bit like a three-legged race from where I sit. As work on various projects advance toward fruition, the unreleased core of SE takes forward steps as well. Still, this inter-relationship may mean that at any given time there are aspects of both that are playing catchup, holes being plugged, necessary features partially fulfilled or awaiting completion of some other related module.

I'm certainly in no position to say which of a number of projects will cross the finish line first. I don't think it will be a 'photo-finish', but the front runners are fairly tightly grouped, so it promises to be an exciting year ... but I know for a fact the engineering team has been very hard at work, and certainly not just on TC. I'm inclined to think that, once several really huge projects are shipping, this integration - which may seem to have slowed things down over the last while - will also turn out to be the driving impetus behind continual progress with respect to SE.

Just my 2 cents ...

 

[Richvideo]

Paul Laura responds

Related link
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93976

 

[ScorpioProd]

I remember before they "rewrote the editor from the ground up" we all thought there was going to be some large features added.

Except that's not at all what they did, nor what they now claim that they ever said they did.

Rich, do you have any links to where the "rewrote the editor from the ground up" was stated? Cause I remember the same thing, as do others I've asked, and yet as of yesterday, Andrew stated the following:

"SpeedEDIT was not a re-write of VT-Edit; I do not think that I have ever represented that it was."

Needless to say, this is not what you or I or other people I've asked remember, and I find that rather strange.

 

[Richvideo]

Cross Post

Except that's not at all what they did, nor what they now claim that they ever said they did.

Rich, do you have any links to where the "rewrote the editor from the ground up" was stated? Cause I remember the same thing, as do others I've asked, and yet as of yesterday, Andrew stated the following:

"SpeedEDIT was not a re-write of VT-Edit; I do not think that I have ever represented that it was."

Needless to say, this is not what you or I or other people I've asked remember, and I find that rather strange.

Well this is the only SE post that I could find related to development
http://www.videotoasternt.com/forums/read.cgi?51407

 

[SBowie]

There can clearly be no question that peeling SE away from VT, along with adding its many substantial new features involved much brand new work - probably right down to the foundation in some matters. That said and despite any statements about 'new beginnings' made at the time or since, I really seriously doubt that anyone ever meant to officially imply every line of code in SE was brand new. It should go without saying that much existing work was retained, as is plain to all beholders. I really don't know why this would even be a topic for serious discussion.

Over the years it has sometimes seemed that there is a tendency to latch onto a particular expression (or impression), then dredge it up later to sandbag or (to borrow a word from another person's post yesterday) 'bait' a discussion should events not turn out precisely as an individual hoped for, or perhaps just run late. I've little doubt that avoiding this pitfall is one* of the reasons staff sometimes does not participate more liberally in public discussions of potential features, details of implementations, and so on. A casual, musing remark can easily be invested with the weight of words carved in stone. Of course, an official announcement can and should be taken as such.

The practical reality is that twists, turns, surprises, roadblocks and unexpected opportunities *always* result in adjustments to development plans. It's not unusual in the least for some slight glitch that appears when deadlines are tight to mean something is pulled just before a release, or for some valuable but unforeseen item that is a 'low-hanging fruit' to be added even if it means a little delay. Likewise, putting 'icing on a cake' - say, a specific feature that is not ideal - that will ultimately be discarded and replaced by something entirely new but which is not yet complete is clearly time wasted. But one might not yet wish to reveal information about the new approach for competitive reasons - end result, no update, no comment.

I'm told there is an old African proverb which goes something like this: "If a man is of a mind to beat his dog, he will not lack for a stick." Unfortunately, what may seem at the time to be a casual, general, friendly discussion can leave the ground strewn with sticks that some will later isolate and take up in a less friendly context. As a single word in error can mean some are disappointed that a pet notion is not followed up in the manner or schedule expected, keeping quiet about specifics seems rather wise.

(* Other factors are doubtless involved too; everyone has is a ton of work to attend to, along with the desire to keep new concepts close to one's chest for obvious competitive reasons.)

 

[Rich Deustachio]

Except that's not at all what they did, nor what they now claim that they ever said they did.

Rich, do you have any links to where the "rewrote the editor from the ground up" was stated? Cause I remember the same thing, as do others I've asked, and yet as of yesterday, Andrew stated the following:

"SpeedEDIT was not a re-write of VT-Edit; I do not think that I have ever represented that it was."

Needless to say, this is not what you or I or other people I've asked remember, and I find that rather strange.

Sorry I don't have a link to that but I know I either was told in person or read it on the forums that it was a re-write of VT-Edit by a NewTek employee. This was in response to why it was taking so long to be completed.

Steve, this isn't just a misinterpretation of someones statement that now varies in some small way. Either SE was re-written from the ground up or it wasn't, and if it wasn't then they shouldn't have said it in response to why it was taking so long to complete.

 

[billmi]

My impression has always been that the "rewritten from the ground up" phrase was referring to the video processing pipeline within SpeedEdit, not every single bit of code in SpeedEdit. Certainly that portion did have to be written anew, in order to provide resolution flexibility, which was one of SE's key new features. I believe the way video is displayed in the SpeedEdit Output window was also written as fresh code, rather than a modification of the VT Video Monitor.

Obviously not every single part of the software was fresh, as items like the Batch Capture skin, are carry-overs from VT that are unused in SE.

 

[Rich Deustachio]

Well it doesn't really matter at this point, we still don't have most of the features that were requested many years ago.

 

[Rich Deustachio]

Here is an out take from a Q&A with Jim Plant.

Q10. When will we see a SpeedEDIT upgrade, and what will be in it?
A. We also have an upgrade planned for SpeedEDIT for later this year. There's lots of cool new stuff in it, but I would say the highlights are the long-requested "sub-projects as overlays" capability, a new interpolated slow motion mode, and better QuickTime support.

LINK -> http://www.videotoasternt.com/forums/read.cgi?52315

No "ground up" statement but it is just an example of some things mentioned that haven't come true.

 

[ScorpioProd]

A casual, musing remark can easily be invested with the weight of words carved in stone. Of course, an official announcement can and should be taken as such.

So which of those two choices would you consider Newtek's CEO Jim Plant's "interview" to have been?

 

[SBowie]

So which of those two choices would you consider Newtek's CEO Jim Plant's "interview" to have been?

We weren't discussing those remarks, but since you bring it up ... I'm neither able nor going to speak for someone else, but I've already commented on the fact that things sometimes run later than hoped, and a few general reasons this can happen. I've also said I have no doubt at all that everyone at NewTek would like to have seen another SE update earlier rather than later.

Again speaking personally, I've absolutely no doubt the comments you refer to were made in good faith. 'Stuff happens' - in product development and in business (as my earlier post described). I doubt you are seriously suggesting deceit or anything like that, Eugene - which makes me wonder if now you're not just fishing around for the proverbial stick I referred to just for fun.:stumped:

p.s. - in all fairness, the word "planned" in the quote cannot be held to quite the same standard as "promised".

 

[Rich Deustachio]

Let's be realistic here Steve. Most of the requests have been around since VT3, and that's a very long time ago.

I am not saying it is deceitful in what was said in that interview but you have to admit it doesn't help the argument that they are putting as much resources into the editor as they do Tricaster.

 

[ScorpioProd]

We weren't discussing those remarks, but since you bring it up ... I'm neither able nor going to speak for someone else, but I've already commented on the fact that things sometimes run later than hoped, and a few general reasons this can happen. I've also said I have no doubt at all that everyone at NewTek would like to have seen another SE update earlier rather than later.

Again speaking personally, I've absolutely no doubt the comments you refer to were made in good faith. 'Stuff happens' - in product development and in business (as my earlier post described). I doubt you are seriously suggesting deceit or anything like that, Eugene - which makes me wonder if now you're not just fishing around for the proverbial stick I referred to just for fun.:stumped:

p.s. - in all fairness, the word "planned" in the quote cannot be held to quite the same standard as "promised".

I don't know Steve... I'm not sure you are able to speak for what I'm suggesting, either... For the same reasons.

You're right, "planned" doesn't equal "promised". And no, I'm not calling Jim Plant a liar, I think he believed what he said at the time. But I can't help but make the point that the CEO of a company has the power to make what he says actually happen, if he wants to. Of course, then again, it does depend on his advisors and the people that actually work for him. It's very much like the office of the President, really. Maybe it isn't that great a job being a CEO after all... Except for the money one makes. :hey:

And you work for Newtek, so I wouldn't expect you to agree that there is spin doctoring going on, but of course there is. All companies do that, at least in marketing if nothing else. It's only a venial sin, really.

And as always, it is the user's choice if they decide to stick with Newtek products or not, it's not like Newtek has the power to force anyone to stick around, so what does it really matter? It doesn't.

 

[SBowie]

Let's be realistic here Steve. Most of the requests have been around since VT3, and that's a very long time ago.

Yes, let's be realistic - tons of things have been knocked off the wishlist since VT3. (This doesn't mean there aren't more to go, or that it wouldn't be nice if more had come sooner.)

... you have to admit it doesn't help the argument that they are putting as much resources into the editor as they do Tricaster.

Of course they aren't. Who said they were? Different amounts of effort go into different products at different times, even within the TC family lineup. I know nothing about your business, but do you always put an equal amount of time and effort into every aspect of it? Or do you work on all aspects of it continually, but assigning your resources in varying amounts according to both demand, R.O.I., and other factors?

That said, the simple point I've made is that the dev efforts are not mutually exclusive. The editor is undeniably integrated into the TriCaster, and in many cases working on one is working on the other in very real ways. I truly believe that TC proliferation is ultimately going to be one of the driving forces for SE advances.

 

[SBowie]

But I can't help but make the point that the CEO of a company has the power to make what he says actually happen, if he wants to. Of course, then again, it does depend on his advisors and the people that actually work for him. It's very much like the office of the President, really. Maybe it isn't that great a job being a CEO after all...

Eugene, that's just disingenuous. The president of a country, CEO of a company, or one-person video company owner has to weigh a lot of other factors beyond 'advisors and staff'. And even setting that aside, what president in his right mind would tell his staff "We must settle the Middle East problem, drop everything else - and I mean everything".

And you work for Newtek, so I wouldn't expect you to agree that there is spin doctoring going on, but of course there is. All companies do that, at least in marketing if nothing else.

Of course I'd agree there's spin in the world of marketing. In any endeavor, marketing highlights strengths and minimizes shortcomings. That's Business 101. But I don't work in marketing. And I haven't made any comments (pro or con) about spin. I don't know why I'd be expected to, since no question had been raised. Since it's come up, I will say that I haven't seen any in this thread. Not a thing I've said is 'spin'; I've written nothing more than my own 100% sincere personal view based on experience not unlike your own.

I fully agree with Andrew's comment (on the VTNT list) wherein he wrote "I am absolutely not playing any kind of "spin" game. When I have seen some posts that seemed technically incorrect or which I felt I could add some factual information, I did my best to help in that regard. Beyond this I have tried to really not get involved or get baited; certainly I am not trying to defend (indeed I think I have acknowledged our weaknesses where relevant,) market or spin anything; if I did in some what then I apologize."

(BTW, in case its not clear to all and sundry, I use the word 'baiting' in the same manner as I believe Andrew intended - to describe attempts to use any and every opportunity to elicit a response by one or another provocative comments.) Frankly, I know what sort of load Dr. Cross has on his plate at this very moment, and was truly astonished that he took time out from an absolutely killer schedule to respond. Whereas I think he tends to offer insight on technical discussions, I am more likely to respond when I really feel a viewpoint that has been expressed is incorrect, overstated, unfair or unfounded.

And as always, it is the user's choice if they decide to stick with Newtek products or not, it's not like Newtek has the power to force anyone to stick around, so what does it really matter? It doesn't.

Where has anyone tried to force anyone else to do anything, or denied that users have free choice Eugene?

[EDIT: I'm editing this because, on reflection, I don't want to leave room for anyone to misunderstand what I wrote about "marketing". While marketing by definition involves presenting product in the most favorable light, there's certainly nothing wrong with that. That's an essential contribution (consider what happened to the Amiga as proof). But that is just a fraction of what marketing does, and I wouldn't want their hard work and talent to be denigrated.)

 

[ScorpioProd]

Eugene, that's just disingenuous. The president of a country, CEO of a company, or one-person video company owner has to weigh a lot of other factors beyond 'advisors and staff'. And even setting that aside, what president in his right mind would tell his staff "We must settle the Middle East problem, drop everything else - and I mean everything".

You're right, Steve... To me, that would be just as disingenuous, by the very same reasons you're stating, for Newtek to say that there's a "dedicated engineering team" only working on SpeedEDIT. I mean, obviously, as business demands, resources will be moved as needed. So one should never take such a statement from anyone at Newtek literally. And yes, Steve, many users did take that statement literally, that it implied a development cycle for SpeedEDIT that the users haven't witnessed in the time since then. And at the very least, that the hope encouraged some users not to move on to other systems when they had been considering it. So as you can imagine, this can cause a good deal of fustration for those users.

Where has anyone tried to force anyone else to do anything, or denied that users have free choice Eugene?

I think you missed my point entirely on that one.

My point was there's nothing further to discuss, if users don't find their Newtek product does what they need, and they don't find they're getting satisfactory answers on Newtek's future plans, they can leave. It seems like a pretty simple and straightforward point to me.

 

[Rich Deustachio]

Eugene, I am at that decision point this year. I need to upgrade my hardware to run VT5/SE to edit HD/HDV and I am considering two paths. One is to stay the course and upgrade my PC to use VT5/SE and option two is to spend about the same money and go with an Apple system running FCP6.

What plays a large part in my decision is what NewTek does to improve SE/VT5 editor. Not a promise of things to come in a year or two, but what it will do now, this year.

Not being able to edit many of the HD/HDV formats in SE doesn't put a positive check mark in NewTeks list. Neither does not being able to do clean slo-motion.

Option three is to stay with the PC format and go with another PC editor.

One way or another a decision will be made and Newtek will either lose a long time customer or retain one based on what they do with SE.