Adobe 3D

Shabazzy

LightWave Fan Boi
Adobe Substance 3D --- It's over. Adobe will dominate the casual user and will completely overtake corporation 3D needs. The independent 3D generalist will be a thing of the past.
Old dogs like me probably won't give up their cherished toolsets and freedom any time too soon.

I mean, if you were serious about your profession, you'd probably invest in Adobe's photo, video and 3D AR tools, which will set you back over £1750 per year and will only be able to access and use your files as long as you maintain your subscription and don't p### off Adobe. In any case your files on their server will never be yours.

These products are definitely for the next gen of artists. That's for sure.

The speed and simplicity of getting to the finished image makes me wonder, "exactly how much control have they taken out of the hands of the artist to achieve this?".

It's already a lot and if it's a lot more, then I think there's still hope as long as people know there are alternative choices.
 

OFF

pass:sword
By the way, the Adobe Substance family is now somewhat reminiscent of the Lightwave, with its Layout and Modeler )
 

Markc

ack ack
Adobe Substance 3D --- It's over. Adobe will dominate the casual user and will completely overtake corporation 3D needs. The independent 3D generalist will be a thing of the past.
The casual user would not want a subscription model, unless insane.
A total waste of money if you use software 'casually'.

And then there's this:

 
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Ma3rk

Curmudgeon in Training
From the same minds that brought us World Creator:


Oh, but this is free.

So "I fart in your general direction Adobe"...
 

Lewis

Member # 777
40$/month (later 50$) way too expensive considering how much already i pay for AdobeCC each year. Also it's easy to throw in 3d models when they are ready but how to model/UVmap those models in that "Adobe Substance 3D" in the first place :)?
I say Bring it on, more potential clients for modelers ;) :).
 
Adobe Substance 3D --- It's over. Adobe will dominate the casual user and will completely overtake corporation 3D needs. The independent 3D generalist will be a thing of the past.
not at all, rather the opposite.

i'd rather say > unfortunately Adobe bought Substance, only to cripple the development.
just like AutoDesk did with Mudbox / Softimage / ++

that said, alternatives are >
Armor Paint (Paid, Open Source)
3D-Coat (Paid)
Quixel Suite (Freemium)

 

Tim Parsons

Active member
not at all, rather the opposite.

i'd rather say > unfortunately Adobe bought Substance, only to cripple the development.
It's hard to say how the development will go, but one thing I do know is that tons of corporations and marketing departments will be very interested in this product and that alone will make it a success. 3D is changing - it's easier than ever to create great looking content. Our marketing department has just started using 3D for product shots and it's incredible what they are doing with 3DSMax after only a few months of using it or any 3D software.
 

raymondtrace

Founding member
...it's easier than ever to create great looking content...
That's something that has been said for the past 30 years and it is something we should all hope for.

Nobody should feel threatened by this (rising tides, and all...). Tool accessibility is great but one still needs the skill and experience to make it look good with whatever tool. I always giggle at bugzilla2001's YouTube channel for announcing LW was dead, while creating completely crap work in his perceived successor application.
 

RPSchmidt

Member
Old dogs like me probably won't give up their cherished toolsets and freedom any time too soon.

I mean, if you were serious about your profession, you'd probably invest in Adobe's photo, video and 3D AR tools, which will set you back over £1750 per year and will only be able to access and use your files as long as you maintain your subscription and don't p### off Adobe. In any case your files on their server will never be yours.

These products are definitely for the next gen of artists. That's for sure.

The speed and simplicity of getting to the finished image makes me wonder, "exactly how much control have they taken out of the hands of the artist to achieve this?".

It's already a lot and if it's a lot more, then I think there's still hope as long as people know there are alternative choices.

I use Adobe Creative Cloud every day; both at work and personally. I don't use any of their actual "cloud" file services, so everything I create is mine, i.e., the files are created and stored locally, although I would have a difficult time accessing those files if I cancel my subscription. For Photoshop and Illustrator, there are plenty of options to import the files to another application. For After Effects and Premiere Pro, I don't think there are any options for importing their native file formats.

As far as the Substance suite of tools... I don't think that they have significantly changed their core products (Substance Designer and Substance Painter) other than adding new features; so for the market share Substance already owned, I don't think this is a huge change, product-wise, especially since Adobe actually took away perpetual licensing and "rent to own" for Substance back in 2019, other than for the indie version

So this shouldn't be too big a surprise to Substance users. I think the major change for indie users is that if they want to continue getting updates, they'll have to buy every year to continue getting updates (unless they've stopped that now too).

From the same minds that brought us World Creator:


Oh, but this is free.

So "I fart in your general direction Adobe"...

Quixel Mixer itself is free, but unless you are using it solely with Unreal, the Megascans are subscription-based, right? Obviously I need to get back into Unreal (haven't used it in a VERY long time) but I would like to use Megascans with other projects / software as well.

40$/month (later 50$) way too expensive considering how much already i pay for AdobeCC each year. Also it's easy to throw in 3d models when they are ready but how to model/UVmap those models in that "Adobe Substance 3D" in the first place :)?
I say Bring it on, more potential clients for modelers ;) :).

Well.... I think the market is large enough to support 3d from multiple sources, undoubtedly. But just to be clear, Substance does auto UV models if they don't already have a UV. I think there are plenty of far more robust UV solutions out there, but it does it.

In addition, for those who didn't watch the Substance Suite announcement video... they are also coming out with Substance Modeler.

That's something that has been said for the past 30 years and it is something we should all hope for.

Nobody should feel threatened by this (rising tides, and all...). Tool accessibility is great but one still needs the skill and experience to make it look good with whatever tool. I always giggle at bugzilla2001's YouTube channel for announcing LW was dead, while creating completely crap work in his perceived successor application.

Completely agree here. In the end, barring employer-set workflows and application environments, it really does boil down to skill and final product over application. Over and over I've found the client doesn't really care what application you use, as long as you can provide a satisfying solution within a given time.
 

Shabazzy

LightWave Fan Boi
Personally, I don't see anything wrong with these developments. That's progress after all. Innovation presents new opportunities to those who pay enough attention.

The only issue I have with Adobe leading the charge, is with their subscription model. Beyond that, I think the 3D creative community can benefit from these types of tools greatly.
 

RPSchmidt

Member
Personally, I don't see anything wrong with these developments. That's progress after all. Innovation presents new opportunities to those who pay enough attention.

The only issue I have with Adobe leading the charge, is with their subscription model. Beyond that, I think the 3D creative community can benefit from these types of tools greatly.

Same. I subscribe to CC because it's fundamental to my work; but I am disappointed that so much creative software is switching to subscription models. Red Giant sells out to Maxon, goes subscription... Substance sells out to Adobe, goes subscription. Even with token indie pricing, there is definitely a level where creatives are being forced out of access to professional workload monetarily.
 
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Ma3rk

Curmudgeon in Training
Well, since it hit 119 here today & this is the least caloric activity around I've found, thought I'd ramble on this a bit. OK, the very refreshing and arguably necessary Peach Marguerritas could have been a factor too, but don't be so quick to judge now. They were canned peaches.

I've been using Adobe products for decades. It's certainly not the products (World Class), nor just the Subscription thing (don't get me going), but their overall arrogance since well way before all that actually. Hell, I helped develop content for them in the really early days. I don't have, want, nor really need their Adobe Cloud stuff, but have you ever tried to uninstall it if you didn't want to keep any of their demos? Impossible w/o special tools & possibly some registry editing as well.

But let me ask a question? Nice tool set of course while you're working & can write it off, or simply have the company pay the tab, but what happens when you retire? Got an arrangement w/ your company to maintain a subscription for you? Or, you make enough of a name for yourself that you can simply write it off while on a Social Security income? You gonna stop having Creative ideas?

A lot of us put up being Adobe's paying guinea pigs for years. I stopped updating after acquiring the CS6 Production Suite (I won it actually) & use 90% tools still. But not on a daily basis. Ever add up what the current equivalent is annually? About $600/year. Not hideous, but... I hope to claw along another 20 or so. I can still do what I need/want to do with the old tools. Some of the new stuff is slick, but much of that is doable w/o them. I'm sure I can put a few $K a decade to better use and still open my projects if I just want to check something w/o opening the wallet as well.

Speaking of Opening, let me ask a couple more questions? Ever try to open an unknown .aep (and of course NOT knowing what version it is just from the name, how silly), only to be given the incompatible version error? Ever have an emergency & need to open an ancient After Effects project? I have. Client's CC20xx wouldn't open the file. Backwards compatibility past the immediate predecessor? Who'd ever need that? I installed a pre CS version that allowed me to open the project & save to a form that CS6 could then open & save out as an actual CS6 version that their CC20XX could then open.

But the good ol' Adobe Arrogance reared again. You see, the Pre-C* version I owed & needed to open a file that their current product couldn't, kept pestering me to register. Which I tried to do, but couldn't. I'm guessing as a cost cutting measure or they needed the space that Familia Adobe had taken those servers down. Gee, who'd ever need to open something "Old"? A phone conversation (this was last year) with the current drone incarnation of First Line Tech Support mostly confirmed this, & got stuck in a loop saying that I was trying to register a discontinued product. But your Discontinued Product keeps asking me for a RegKey. How can I get it to stop asking for that. Crickets. I ended the conversation telling Droney that I'd simply un/re install each time I need to use the Product that I purchased, & search for a pirate solution since the legitimate author is refusing to address this issue with a decades long user. It's software & you have a bunch of highly over-paid talent that should be able to figure something out as simple as a Retire-this-product-but-keep-working RegKey.

He was still stuck in his loop when I hung up.

Ah, down to mid 80's now with a bit of a breeze. Better go look for that pitcher I 'spose.

M.
 

Gee, who'd ever need to open something "Old"?
i know. Amazing they can get away with so much.
but nice they finally have competition.

i avoid Adobe AutoDesk. haven't found a "must" from them yet.
the only thing is After Effects, where the competition is lagging.

 

raymondtrace

Founding member
There's a fun exercise we can all do. Recall how much you spent on AAA products (Apple, Autodesk, Adobe) years ago and then put that same value toward their stock prices at the time. Where would we be financially now if we were investors instead of customers? When I was buying Macs up to nearly 20 years ago, the AAPL stock price was less than 1 USD (now 125+).

Adobe? https://www.google.com/search?q=adobe+stock+price (expand the chart to "Max", then cry over all those Creative Suites you wasted money on...instead of preparing as an investor for the CC money grab)

Creatives are in the wrong business. They are the business now.
 

prometheus

REBORN
Creatives are in the wrong business. They are the business now.

You can be very creative and do quite much with so much free software, cost you nothing(if you disregard the computer which some folks have a tendency to get hooked up on that it cost..duh) you probably bought the computer to do your daily choirs, watch youtube, play games or for another software..so I do not count that in to that cost, those running a business is a different matter completely.

But it all comes down to what level of course and where you work ..if you work at all with it, or if you are just creative
 

RPSchmidt

Member
I've been using Adobe products for decades. It's certainly not the products (World Class), nor just the Subscription thing (don't get me going), but their overall arrogance since well way before all that actually. Hell, I helped develop content for them in the really early days. I don't have, want, nor really need their Adobe Cloud stuff, but have you ever tried to uninstall it if you didn't want to keep any of their demos? Impossible w/o special tools & possibly some registry editing as well.

YES. That was so annoying... I had to use Revo Uninstaller to target everything Adobe to clear all traces of old versions off of my system back in the day. They had (may still have) the worst uninstaller.

But let me ask a question? Nice tool set of course while you're working & can write it off, or simply have the company pay the tab, but what happens when you retire? Got an arrangement w/ your company to maintain a subscription for you? Or, you make enough of a name for yourself that you can simply write it off while on a Social Security income? You gonna stop having Creative ideas?

Agree. As I said in my last post, even putting retirement aside, when does the cost burden of subscription software become too much for solo creatives to bear? They are being priced out of the competitive market with all of these subscription services.

Putting Adobe aside; Autodesk dominates the professional 3d production pipeline, but how do solo creatives afford using it? I'm not sure that Maya or 3ds Max have actually had that much overall improvement that would even validate the continuous stream of money going to Autodesk.

Speaking of Opening, let me ask a couple more questions? Ever try to open an unknown .aep (and of course NOT knowing what version it is just from the name, how silly), only to be given the incompatible version error? Ever have an emergency & need to open an ancient After Effects project? I have. Client's CC20xx wouldn't open the file. Backwards compatibility past the immediate predecessor? Who'd ever need that? I installed a pre CS version that allowed me to open the project & save to a form that CS6 could then open & save out as an actual CS6 version that their CC20XX could then open.

I haven't really run into this particular issue, but probably because I have been using CC since release and have not actually run into the need to open older files.

But for AE, wouldn't it be a matter of importing, rather than opening? I was under the impression that you can import AE projects into AE CC 2021 from all the way back to CS5.5. Of course, I haven't actually tried. I should test that out, if I can find a suitable file.

But the good ol' Adobe Arrogance reared again. You see, the Pre-C* version I owed & needed to open a file that their current product couldn't, kept pestering me to register. Which I tried to do, but couldn't. I'm guessing as a cost cutting measure or they needed the space that Familia Adobe had taken those servers down. Gee, who'd ever need to open something "Old"? A phone conversation (this was last year) with the current drone incarnation of First Line Tech Support mostly confirmed this, & got stuck in a loop saying that I was trying to register a discontinued product. But your Discontinued Product keeps asking me for a RegKey. How can I get it to stop asking for that. Crickets. I ended the conversation telling Droney that I'd simply un/re install each time I need to use the Product that I purchased, & search for a pirate solution since the legitimate author is refusing to address this issue with a decades long user. It's software & you have a bunch of highly over-paid talent that should be able to figure something out as simple as a Retire-this-product-but-keep-working RegKey.

He was still stuck in his loop when I hung up.

Ah, down to mid 80's now with a bit of a breeze. Better go look for that pitcher I 'spose.

M.

This is a double-edged blade.

I agree that you paid for the software and all you are asking for is the ability to continue using it. At the same time, we all sign an agreement when we install the software.

Knowing Adobe, somewhere in that agreement it absolves them of the obligation to continue to support it in any way at any given point.

When you add in the fact that earlier versions of Adobe Creative Suite have known security vulnerabilities (especially After Effects) and Adobe actually released a statement warning users that continuing to use earlier versions of the software was at their own risk, I'm sure that they have done everything they could to disconnect themselves from liability for those products... even to the extent of no longer supporting installation.

If they didn't, it could be argued by users who suffer damage to their systems as the result of CS exploits that Adobe endorses the use of the product by providing installation support.


i know. Amazing they can get away with so much.
but nice they finally have competition.

i avoid Adobe AutoDesk. haven't found a "must" from them yet.
the only thing is After Effects, where the competition is lagging.

That's the only hope, that new and emerging developers don't follow that same route.

Did want to point out that Adobe and Autodesk are two different companies ;)

Hitfilm Pro and Blackmagic Fusion are excellent alternatives to After Effects, although they can be a learning curve if the majority of your experience has been in AE.

The major drawback is the loss of reach back to earlier work in AE.

AE itself is a good software; but in my opinion, what puts it over the top is the third-party development environment and user-to-user support. If you have a need, there is a third-party developer who has designed something to meet that need or a user who has a solution.

Alternative options just don't have that same robust environment, yet.
 

For a professional the cost shouldn't be much of an issue.

Their various policy paths however is horrible.

You can't rely on an Adobe / AutoDesk product for backward compability.

Hitfilm Pro and Blackmagic Fusion
yes, depends on the project(s). some stuff is great in AE, some in HF, etc.


A vs A -
yep, 'couse, but same "policy"


Alternative options just don't have that same robust environment, yet.
agree.


 
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