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Thread: Polygon Table - Help Building One

  1. #1

    Polygon Table - Help Building One

    So Chemits have the Periodic Table, Designers have Font and Color Tables. What do CG Modelers have? (It's not rhetorical, if you know something, plz tell)

    So i have the idea of a Table or Tables, good both for begginers (to get in touch with concepts in 3D) and for the experts (stuff that is handy to know, but not really interesting to have in memory, just a reminder). My concerning is more about Subdivision, but if you have ideas for other stuff, it's all good.

    Questions are:
    - Do you guys think there is such need to a Table? And for what precisely?
    - What could be good for both begginers and pros to have as a sticky?
    - How should it be constructed or presented?
    - Do i need to get out more often so i don't come out with crazy stuff like this?


    My first sketch of its about the Vertex Number around groups of polys and what happens inside of them.
    I have too much info for now, it could go only up to 10 Vertex, since 12 doesn't say much and 16 is a repetion of 8. 3 could be gone too.
    The reason i put the extrusion there and repeat it 2 times its because it might be cool to see how the polygroups works in Sub-D, and an extrusion is better than just the polygroup to understand that.

    Please correct me for whatever you see wrong there. Wether is terminology(vertex? extrusion?), references, presentation, etc.

    If this gives you ideas, feel free to sketch them back here. Wether it's a table for 3D, a new sign language or a puzzle videogame

    Cheers.




  2. #2

    Another Example

    This time a Elbow Table. In wich one could take in account what kind of geometry he wants to use before it starts to work. And a begginer could understand more about Subpatching from it.

    It would be cool to have this kind of Tables if they help you to predict better what you are going to do and wich will fit better your objectives.

    This mentality could be applyed for Rigs, Render settings, etc. They could help to structure your workflow. It's like having an information poster on the studio. Better then video tutorials sometimes. And it could save time to you and others you share with, instead of doing everything from memory. "I know i have to turn something off, but what is it?...". And you might spend more time doing the stuff than remembering stuff.

    Oh Well, maybe im just going

    Last edited by probiner; 05-15-2009 at 08:23 PM.

  3. #3
    Fórum áss clówn Hopper's Avatar
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    Very cool probiner. I think I could definately use that!
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  4. #4
    Valiant NewTeKnight Matt's Avatar
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    This is a really good idea. Almost all objects are made up of the same subpatching techniques when you break them down. Having a visual list like this helps jog the memory of other ways to work your mesh.

    These would be useful too

    - Holes

    - Local detail (bumps / insets)

    - Smooth to sharp detail
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  5. #5
    LightWave documentation BeeVee's Avatar
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    I think this is a great idea - can I suggest LightWiki for it since then it will all be easily accessible and easy to update?

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  6. #6
    Pixel and Poly Pusher JeffrySG's Avatar
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    Cool

    Yes! I simply love tables like this. Especially the elbow table. I think if I had these when starting subd work it would have made it much easier. So I think these are great. The more the merrier.

    I made this one a while back and posted it here - on a subd step down guide.

    Great job on those, probiner!


  7. #7
    Fórum áss clówn Hopper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    This is a really good idea. Almost all objects are made up of the same subpatching techniques ...

    These would be useful too

    - Holes
    Yes please ...

    Putting holes in meshes after the fact has always been my downfall. It's frustrating and mind bending sometimes. It's obviously an exercise in planning your poly flow correctly, but I haven't been doing this for years and years so it's still a puzzle to me most times.
    Playing guitar is an endless process of running out of fingers.

  8. #8
    Ok, taking notes:
    - Holes; i think know these. You thinking in something straight or a bit more complex?
    - Local detail (bumps / insets) Have no idea maybe you are refering to stuff like this?
    - Smooth to sharp detail; Again, i don't now much examples. maybe... stuff like this again?
    - LightWiki. I wasn't thinking applications specific, but ok. Altough i don't know how can i put stuff there... hmm... need to ask...

    So here is the thing guys.
    I would like to do many types of Tables, cause i think it might ROCK! But, for some i am still learning, so i wouldn't know if it something useful or not, like the stuff i posted here (it's just things i thought of and tested, maybe not great for foundations). Matt's pointers look like a start, but im' gonna have to check material and learn (thats ok, it's my pourpuse ) in order to make a decent table.

    I was also trying to ppl to do/share Tables based on things they do/need all the time, nail it once in a Table and thats it: no need to look for those video tutorials they did once or scratch the head. So this thread is to ppl post stuff like that. It doesn't need to be original, if there's already, good stated material out there, point it here please. Jeffry got one star

    It's like Matt said, this way of putting things helps more in the thinking. Sometimes videos can be really annoying since you have to pass that time. You can't read at your spead and suddenly go back and come forward again. It's like the difference between an animatic and a storyboard.

    For me now this is more about Subdivision modeling and planning the work, but if you guys have an idea like this for rigging, character desing, special pourpuse renders, say it or do it

    These are some i would like to see nailed:

    - Ear modeling examples. (it's a hard one that begginners have difficulty, and once its stated ppl can do different later)
    - Head Basic Topologies. (good one to look at when you starting a model)
    - Body Basic topologies (same thing here, choose a way for each character, taking in account the pourpuse if its for a still, animation, game. I wonder who will do this... )
    - Car Modeling principles (rules to remind and a good heads up for those starting to mess with Patching.)
    - Well you got it. Fundations of stuff...

    Im challenging you guys

    I'll probably do Holes for now Matt, cause might be the most simple for me now, just tell me what kinda holes you think it would make sense to show up.


    Cheers
    Last edited by probiner; 05-15-2009 at 11:15 PM.

  9. #9
    Fórum áss clówn Hopper's Avatar
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    That's excellent probiner.

    As far as the holes in meshes go. The most difficult thing I used to run across was when I had to put a complex shaped hole in a shape that already had complex curves with other holes in it. Albeit it's usually because I didn't plan ahead as I should have, but I would try to make do with what I had already created instead of completely redesigning the poly flow. It usually got ugly very fast.

    I have learned to plan a lot better than I used to, but sometimes it's still a mind bender when the shape you are cutting into isn't flat. Now, when I get stupid and mess up my mesh, I usually just get lazy and freeze the mesh and just boolean it out. Yeah, it's a poor substitution and creates WAY too many polys, but it gets the job done.

    One thing I have done in the past with some success is to create my base shapes in polygonal mode, boolean out my holes, then create my poly flow around it. I have no idea if this is considered poor technique or not, but I guess it comes down to planning as usual.

    EDIT: Jeffry - I can't thank you enough for that step down chart man. I still keep it in a background window anytime I'm using subD's.
    Last edited by Hopper; 05-15-2009 at 11:27 PM.
    Playing guitar is an endless process of running out of fingers.

  10. #10
    This was was done today very fast for a guy, but i could dress it up. I think it belongs to holes categorie Its kinda hard to to fundamentals with so many situatios that you can come across with. But i would preffer if the tables were more open, and altough they can use real situations, still there the possibilit to extrapolate for other situations.

    In this image the "Each edge of the octogon needs two hold edges(like in any normal hard edge sittuation), so the Sphere got to have 8x3 vertexs to connect" its a start.

    So depending on the Hole the Sphere would go like:
    Tri: 3x3= 9 Sides
    Quad: 4x3= 12 Sides
    Penthagon: 5x3= 15 Sides
    Hexagon: 6x3= 18 Sides
    Octagon: 8x3= 24 Sides



    Cheers
    Last edited by probiner; 05-15-2009 at 11:48 PM.

  11. #11
    I remembered a new one
    Plugins Table!

    LW is poly-by-poly application and if wasn't for its plugs, inorganic models could be a big pain.

    So having a Table with 5/6 plugs that make your life easy could be a way. And begginers would love

  12. #12
    Super Member Silkrooster's Avatar
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    If you don't want to worry about the details of how to put things on a wiki, you could create a multi-page pdf and post it anywhere including most wiki's.
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  13. #13
    Very nice topic and excellent tips .
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  14. #14
    Registered User accom's Avatar
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    Great stuff here! Congratulations on the idea and on the above reference tables!
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  15. #15
    I did not yet have time to do other stuff.
    Just reorganized what i had.

    Another example of the multiplying by 3 to get hard edges.




    Another version of the Table. Smaller, hard do look at and with noob formulas. Oh my... what have i done...?



    Cheers
    Last edited by probiner; 05-27-2009 at 06:08 PM.

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