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Thread: Lightwave CORE and Game Development.

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrizto View Post
    The framework is there, so it could be developed within Core.
    As for 9.6, I don't think it is possible.
    Why do you think so? LW 9.6 is fine. I already use it as my main tool to create game contents. The only thing I am really missing is the vertex-normal export we are talking about. If I need sculpting and 3d-painting I can use external tools (Modo, Bodypaint, ZBrush or 3d-Coat).


    Quote Originally Posted by Myagi
    The only simlpe option was the one I mentioned previously, that is to enable smoothing on _all_ materials used (with the default 89.53 angle). Then I could write the normal generator and apply that smoothing angle on everything. An ugly solution.
    I can understand your concern. If this would be possible then we had a perfect replacement for Max's smoothing groups.
    But really, this is not ugly for me. It is prefectly fine. Up to now I dont need several smoothing angles. Most models have only one material, one texture and one uv-map. So I really need only the re-alignment of normals. And I am sure most game devs just agree with me here.

    Thanks again for your great help!

  2. #62
    Adapting Artist jasonwestmas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank_Geppert View Post
    Why do you think so? LW 9.6 is fine. I already use it as my main tool to create game contents. The only thing I am really missing is the vertex-normal export we are talking about. If I need sculpting and 3d-painting I can use external tools (Modo, Bodypaint, ZBrush or 3d-Coat).




    I can understand your concern. If this would be possible then we had a perfect replacement for Max's smoothing groups.
    But really, this is not ugly for me. It is prefectly fine. Up to now I dont need several smoothing angles. Most models have only one material, one texture and one uv-map. So I really need only the re-alignment of normals. And I am sure most game devs just agree with me here.
    LW works great for a lot of static game asset stuff. It is also possible to get great character stuff out of LW too, it just may take a little longer with characters because of several reasons. Smoothing angles for polys can be transfered over pretty easily from what I hear.
    All that is powerful or long standing is first conceived in the imagination; supported by the hope of possibility and then made manifest in our commitment of our current physical reality.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by jasonwestmas View Post
    Smoothing angles for polys can be transfered over pretty easily from what I hear.
    So what did you hear exactly? I would like to know how this can be done.

  4. #64
    Adapting Artist jasonwestmas's Avatar
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    If my memory serves me correctly, Deep Exploration might preserve smoothing angles from .LWO objects and you can then export to DX or other animation formats. Various engines, I've heared, import .lwo objects with the smoothing angles too. But yeah this isn't always guaranteed. There are are also game engine tool kits similar to Granny 3D that are able to properly deal with LW files, but they aren't cheap!
    Last edited by jasonwestmas; 02-11-2009 at 02:46 PM.
    All that is powerful or long standing is first conceived in the imagination; supported by the hope of possibility and then made manifest in our commitment of our current physical reality.

  5. #65
    Adapting Artist jasonwestmas's Avatar
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    Something else came to mind. Did any of you try to export to collada and import that? I would think there should be a script or something that would be able to export smoothing angles to collada format. Collada is know for being very flexible.
    All that is powerful or long standing is first conceived in the imagination; supported by the hope of possibility and then made manifest in our commitment of our current physical reality.

  6. #66
    The above post(s) just made me think. Frank have you tried importing an LWO to blender and then export to collada? Maybe that will export good normals?

    I would've tried but everytime I have to touch blender's UI I get an urge to throw my computer out the window so I don't have it installed


    @jason: The issue is lightwave's collada exporter. If you open a collada file it exports, you'll see it's completely devoid of normals and smoothing information of any kind. So if I wanted to code a tool that take such an exported file, to generate normals, I would not be able to re-create the normals exactly like in LW. (Unless I did some assumption that smoothing always has the same setting). The other option would be to write a new collada exporter from scratch, which is more work.

  7. #67
    Adapting Artist jasonwestmas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myagi View Post
    The above post(s) just made me think. Frank have you tried importing an LWO to blender and then export to collada? Maybe that will export good normals?

    I would've tried but everytime I have to touch blender's UI I get an urge to throw my computer out the window so I don't have it installed


    @jason: The issue is lightwave's collada exporter. If you open a collada file it exports, you'll see it's completely devoid of normals and smoothing information of any kind. So if I wanted to code a tool that take such an exported file, to generate normals, I would not be able to re-create the normals exactly like in LW. (Unless I did some assumption that smoothing always has the same setting). The other option would be to write a new collada exporter from scratch, which is more work.

    Hmm, that's something Deep Purple could do I would imagine, he was the dev that was working on that exporter. Other than that, it would take another plugin or another program to get the normals just right.
    All that is powerful or long standing is first conceived in the imagination; supported by the hope of possibility and then made manifest in our commitment of our current physical reality.

  8. #68
    yeah, this "other program" is what I offered to do, if it wouldn't take too much time (since I don't use collada myself, and have no intent to do so anytime soon). A completely new collada exporter would be a little outside the scope, even though that would be the best solution. I don't see the source of the current one being released.

    It hasn't really sunk in yet that they have an exporter that doesn't export normals nor information to accurately reconstruct them. Sorta like selling a car without wheels

  9. #69
    Architectural Designer Tzan's Avatar
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    Vrooom!

    Years ago I had to model/UV in LW >export to VMRL >import to Max >merge points, make smoothing groups. I guess things havent changed much.
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  10. #70
    Adapting Artist jasonwestmas's Avatar
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    It always comes to using max for games, don't it :P
    All that is powerful or long standing is first conceived in the imagination; supported by the hope of possibility and then made manifest in our commitment of our current physical reality.

  11. #71
    To be fair, it's the collada exporter in particular. The OBJ exporter for example does generate normals.

  12. #72
    Adapting Artist jasonwestmas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myagi View Post
    To be fair, it's the collada exporter in particular. The OBJ exporter for example does generate normals.
    True, most game engines are application specific anyway and create their own exporters that create the assets from within the animation package (Usually Max or Maya). Sooo .dae and .obj are not really an issue anyway in my experience seeing as the exporter is pre-made. Even little ol Torque does this. So it really depends on the tools we are using.
    All that is powerful or long standing is first conceived in the imagination; supported by the hope of possibility and then made manifest in our commitment of our current physical reality.

  13. #73
    Pleased to meet you. Oedo 808's Avatar
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    Hi chaps, I've only taken static models through Blender before, I wonder could someone advise me on a good method of getting animations over to Blender?

    Cheers.
    Sentenced to 310 years for crimes against modelling and rendering.

  14. #74
    Adapting Artist jasonwestmas's Avatar
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    Is there a way to use .mdd in blender? What about DirectX or collada? I can't really think of any other formats that might work atm.
    All that is powerful or long standing is first conceived in the imagination; supported by the hope of possibility and then made manifest in our commitment of our current physical reality.

  15. #75
    The LW-blender-game pipeline is not what I would prefer. It might work with obj, lwo but then only with static models. So maybe it is a workaround for a few models then.

    Collada is the right format now. I checked it. The latest version exports animations well into game engines (e.g. C4, Shiva) and the other option (FBX) transfers to some more engines (e.g. Unity, GameStudio).
    Lightwave is a great tool and offers all what most game devs need. So why should I give it up and switch to another tool only because of an export issue? It would be really sad.

    Some of you mentioned Max and to be honest: I could not explain me and my family why I have to buy a software for something around $5,000 (yes, it is that expensive in Europe). I even have problems to explain why it could make sense to invest in Core, but Max? Then I probably better go with Maya. But I would do everything to not become an Autodesk customer. I am even willing to pay for such an exporter.
    I lately thought about becoming a HardCore member only because of this, only to push Newtek to improve their Collada assets for game devs and to give feedback to the tool-set. But I am still not sure about it. It will take time, patience and money. I indeed could just get another tool then.

    Myagi: I really think we can live without the smoothing angles. If you absolutely need them then I would like to type this info in an edit field, so your tool knows it. Then everything gets the same smoothing angle, but I can decide if it will be 40 or 60 degrees.
    The smart re-alignment of the normals and the following melting of the vertices is everything we need. And as I told, this will be good for other Collada files as well.
    Last edited by Frank_Geppert; 02-12-2009 at 12:47 AM.

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