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Thread: Some after thoughts

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_RB View Post
    No one is debating the judges ability to judge their own contest. Just that some entires didn't merit acceptance by not meeting the requirements, nevermind get judged. This is independent of the 'art' of the entries.
    You may not be debating the Judges ability to judge their own contest, but I am. If you look at the top three winners you see nothing to do with original work. The dancing robot has been done to death using other objects. The Final Fantasy-xbox/PSP3 of the second winner isn't original. If you look at all the winners and go back and look at NewTek's old PR reels you'll see most of this stuff there, in one form or another.

    The people judging are stuck in a rut and that rut is making NewTek look old and out of step with the 3D industry. I agree with the other thread and what has been said in this one. It is all kiddie-toy stuff.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by frantbk View Post
    From what some people are complaining about that the top three winners went over on the time limit. That is breaking the rules. Once again many of you don't seem to grasp what people are really complaining about. It is not the winners, but NewTek people are complaining about. NewTek didn't stick to the rules that they put down as a requirement for the contest. Thats what people are complaining about.

    In future contest's people should look at the rules as guidelines for their work. NewTek doesn't have any standards, and if they don't have real standards for a contest then you have to question if you should trust NewTek and their contest.
    Again no. Incorrect information.

    NewTek came back immediately with a response to the claim about the breaking of the rules and stated that they had not broken any rules for the entry. None of the pieces were entered on the merits of the longer piece. Nor were they judged by them. The other claims were also addressed if I remember correctly. On page one of the thread.

    Some entries included a long version of the actual entry, Some included the content WITH the entry, and some submitted multiple entries. It was really interesting to see all the entries come in and what people are doing with LightWave and how they achieve certain things using the base package.
    Along the way, there were some questions as to weather some things were created in LightWave or not. We anticipated this, and as such, had asked the author to email the files so we may take a peek. An example would be the 4th runner up, titled "Black Snow" - The assets were received and checked to be consistent.
    And second, this thread got into a serious amount of complaining about the artistic merits of the pieces further taking a thread that was ill advised to begin with and turned it into something completely in bad taste. That and the fact that Newtek already addressed these other issues is what is being argued here.

  3. #63
    How Old? Really? Aww Heck colkai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frantbk View Post
    If you look at the top three winners you see nothing to do with original work. The dancing robot has been done to death using other objects. The Final Fantasy-xbox/PSP3 of the second winner isn't original.
    Ahem,
    Methinks thou dost confuse original ideas with original CONTENT.

    If you are going to sit around waiting for a completely original idea, then you shall be waiting a very, very long time indeed methinks.

    What work have you done yourself? A car render maybe, heck, been done to death, a human? how many of THEM have been done already? A house?
    A battle, a fly by, a chase, explosion? You see, I defy you to produce anything that cannot be tied back to some other work in the past, as the saying goes "it's all been done".

    The purpose actually was, original content, that is, resources such as textures and objects that the artist may be able to supply Newtek with without copyright infringements or hassles. Thereby allowing people who purchase LW to be able to load up scenes as used in the demo reel.

    To say Newtek doesn't have any standards well, come on, take a look at what Truespace as showing as cutting edge examples of what their version can do, on Newteks worst day, they've not shown anything like that and that is on the main site as an "encouragement" to buy the thing.
    Too old to die young.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by colkai View Post
    Ahem,
    Methinks thou dost confuse original ideas with original CONTENT.
    If you are talking content than non of it was original. The dancing robot is dancing with the stars/idol in content. The Final fantasy is just that. The second and third are not original because they've been done before. Creativity on the other hand and be looked at as the retelling of a story that everyone knows, and the creativity is how well tell the story in an interesting and entertaining way.

    just because you make your version of a Transformer and have them kicking each others butt, does not make it original, nor does it make it original content. What it should do is demonstrate you level of creativity by how different it is from the known content of the original work.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by frantbk View Post
    From what some people are complaining about that the top three winners went over on the time limit.
    The winning entry is 15secs.....I've just timed it, so I guess that's that one ruled out. You can see as plain as day Robotochan was done by the rules, even if NewTek didn't play by the rules themselves.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Surrealist. View Post
    Again no. Incorrect information.

    NewTek came back immediately with a response to the claim about the breaking of the rules and stated that they had not broken any rules for the entry. None of the pieces were entered on the merits of the longer piece. Nor were they judged by them. The other claims were also addressed if I remember correctly. On page one of the thread.
    NewTek didn't really say anything that mattered. NewTek just said a bunch of corporate junk talk to stand by their judges. You can't address issue when your opening statement is "What the judge ruled is final" and than babble on about the contest being within the rules.

  7. #67
    They said all they needed to say. So far there isn't a shred of actual evidence that Newtek even violated any rules. It is all just conjecture. Even the composited piece could easily be done in LW. If there was a question as they stated, they could ask for the assets.

    The contest was put on by NewTek for us, not by us. It was a fun, cool thing to do. We don't regulate what they do. They decided to put on a contest for the mutual benefit of all. And since they put it on and had judges make rulings, of course they stand by it. It is after all their contest.

    If you don't like the tastes of the judges, well, that's just an opinion. I think the entries where great and the thing was pulled off rather professionally.
    Last edited by Surrealist.; 08-16-2008 at 08:42 AM.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Surrealist. View Post
    Again no. Incorrect information.

    . None of the pieces were entered on the merits of the longer piece. Nor were they judged by them. The other claims were also addressed if I remember correctly. On page one of the thread.

    Then why are we seeing a 2 minute and 30 second entry on the winners page? Why aren't they showing the 15 second winning entry? For that particular animation which was incredibly slow paced to begin, what could he have possibly shown in 15 seconds that would have been interesting? I thought one of the guidelines was that people show high energy animation?

  9. #69
    That's already been covered. What they decided to show in the final production has little to do with the actual contest or entries. That was the presentation. You can say they only should have showed the 15 second version. Ok fine. But that is just the presentation. Has nothing to do with the actual entry and what was judged. They had the longer piece to show, they made the call. You can't then turn that into some kind of argument that they broke the rules. The rules were to do with the entries not with what would be shown. And again that was already addressed on the first page by NT.

    EDIT: It did cause some confusion, yes. But it was addressed and I really don't know why they did it. But it is their contest they are paying for the time at Siggraph. They made the call based on what they thought was best.
    Last edited by Surrealist.; 08-16-2008 at 10:52 AM.

  10. #70
    I guess it's just me then. When I am linked to the winners page, I expect and hope to see the winning entries. Not entries that 'could have been' had they been under the time limit.
    I'm not bitter about it because I did not have time to complete my entry so who actually won is irrelevant to me. But had I gotten my entry in, I would be pretty upset to see another entry going for over two minutes and not seeing the 15 second entry that they may have picked over mine.
    So perhaps Newtek should actually post the 15 second entry there? It would stop my argument at least. I just don't actually believe there is one is the problem.

  11. #71
    Yeah I can agree from that perspective. I just don't see it as a cause for alarm so much about the fairness of the contest because it had no bearing. The longer version was not judged and not entered as such.

    At worst, it is an initial PR flub to the contest entrants. But I am guessing that they had not even anticipated getting any longer versions. They made a call.

    But if I had entered the contest and seen it, I too would have been... what? But after they explained it, which they did, it would have handled it for me. No reason to blow that up into a "not playing by their own rules" claim which is the exact point being debated here - or so it is said.

  12. #72
    Registered User Tippsy's Avatar
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    I think the main thing for me about this contest was just the fact that the robotchan was gonna be used as there main promo. It was good and funny but like I said before if I saw a commercial for Lightwave with that as the main promotion about how good Lightwave is I wouldint even think twice about let alone go out and buy a $1000 program. But yes I did enjoy there videos and I think they were well done!

  13. #73
    It was a contest people!

    Or has anyone forgotten that?

    The Robot won. You don't like that create your own sexy animation with fur and hair and see if that makes number one. Then we can all complain about how LW isn't really about the less than stellar hair plugin they added in 9.5. Or make your cloth animation win and we can all complain about the fact that we ought not to be promoting last decades cloth simulations. Take your pick.

    It was a contest. There was no control over the content other than what was submitted. That is up to us.

    The robot was not a marketing decision by Newtek. Sure wish you'd get it straight about that. They did the fair thing, the thing you'd expect a company with some dignity to do and that was actually rate each one on specific points, tally it up and give it to the winner.

    How would you like it if the NT marketing team said, well we'll have them subbit what they want but we'll pick the coolest sexiest one for siggy because we don't want to look uncool. Then we'll tell everybody it was the winner. How lame would that be?

    And this whole thing about "If I saw the robot animation...." Is ludicrous. Nobody looks at that and says, "Oh gee, look at the best LW can do. Wow! I'll take it."

    No. Most people look at it and chuckle. See it for what it was as a fun animation that for what it was, was done well. And that it was done quickly and by a guy who had relatively little experience with LW was a plus. And they look at all the animations and see the variety of things created. That is what they look at.

    Frankly I found it completely refreshing. Everybody is trying to be so f'n serious and sexy with all the cool animation and lighting and all of this stuff. (self included here now)

    Then the thing that comes along and wins is a funny little flippant robot animation.

    I thought that was so cool. I really did.

  14. #74
    Registered User Tippsy's Avatar
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    Wow I think everybody has blown this thing way over the top and everyone is getting way to angry on both sides whats done is done whoopdee freakin doo!

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Surrealist. View Post

    How would you like it if the NT marketing team said, well we'll have them subbit what they want but we'll pick the coolest sexiest one for siggy because we don't want to look uncool. Then we'll tell everybody it was the winner. How lame would that be?
    I won't speak for anyone else, but I would have liked that. Point is, when I am looking at software, I want to see the coolest sexiest animation. I want to be seduced.

    Yes, it was a contest. But I think it would be a mistake to think it was only for us. It's certainly no coincidence that Newtek made the deadline right before Siggraph. To say that it was merely a contest for us and to showcase us artists was Newteks primary goal is being naive. It was a pure marketing campaign to generate new material to show off at Siggraph. As they were giving prizes, I don't think anyone cared for the why. But hey, if that's what they want to show, it's their company. Whatever. Just don't argue the fact that some of us might have differing opinions about it.

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