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Thread: Speed edit & DV timecode

  1. #1
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    Speed edit & DV timecode

    Hi There,
    Does anyone know if the new Speededit is able to read the timecode from a DV file on a dard drive ?
    We do a lot of two camera shoots straight to Quickstream hard drives - all the other major NLE's can read these, has Newtek caught up yet? I would love to go back to the Toaster for editting (especially if I can use my laptop - just like everyone else does) - but I don't want to pay close to a $1,000 (aus) for something I still wont use.

    thanks
    Rohan

  2. #2
    VT[5] SpeedEdit Pilot Jim Capillo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodad
    Hi There,
    Does anyone know if the new Speededit is able to read the timecode from a DV file on a dard drive ?
    We do a lot of two camera shoots straight to Quickstream hard drives - all the other major NLE's can read these, has Newtek caught up yet? I would love to go back to the Toaster for editting (especially if I can use my laptop - just like everyone else does) - but I don't want to pay close to a $1,000 (aus) for something I still wont use.

    thanks
    Rohan
    Other than those who had a peek at NAB, no one has seen a final feature list yet.
    Jim Capillo

    CW Television Productions
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  3. #3
    XDCAM HD production ScorpioProd's Avatar
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    Is there truely a "standard" way to embed TC information in DV clips that "most" other NLEs follow?

    I mean, VT[4] 4.6c when it does DV capture embeds TC info, but my impression was there isn't one standard way to do this that all NLEs can read...

    I agree there should be, but I just don't think that's the case.

    No different than the lack of a standard way to put markers into MPEG-2 streams to become chapter points in DVD authoring software...
    Eugene
    Scorpio Productions

  4. #4
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    I not too sure if there is a "standard" but I was under the impression that the TC info was imbedded in the file.
    What I do know is that other programs can find the timecode from these files and Toaster can't. This also happens with tape footage captured with Scenalyzer (my prefered capture program), other programs can read the timecode but Toaster can't.
    I'm really hoping that Speededit will be able to read these files - otherwise it won't be all that speedy for a lot of my jobs.

    Rohan

  5. #5
    XDCAM HD production ScorpioProd's Avatar
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    Well, I'm definately sure that as of the latest VT[4] 4.6c, VT DV via firewire captures, either batch capture or manual capture, both include embedded TC, which you can see in VT-Edit by clicking on the Local TC button.

    It might be worth trying to capture a DV clip via firewire in VT, and check if other NLEs can read the TC in that clip. I would think they can, but that would be a good test.

    I'm not familiar with the Quickstream HDD that you mentioned, but I know on FireStore HDD systems, you can select what format you want the DV saved as. If your device has such a setting, try having it save it as a Type-2 DV AVI. That's the most universal DV AVI format, and VT can definately read that fine, and should get the TC info from it. AND, any other NLE should be able to as well.
    Eugene
    Scorpio Productions

  6. #6
    TC captured within VT is handled differently. TC is sourced in the info folders and not as metadata or whatever it's called when TC is imbedded within a video file.

    so VT files with TC can't be read other NLEs because the TC is a secondary reference file and not part of the video itself.

  7. #7
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    Yes if I capture through Toaster there is no problem with timecode but it does defeat the speed advanvages of shooting straight to hard drive.
    The Quickstream does have serveral settings including QT, DV raw and Type-2 DV AVI - Type-2 DV AVI is the only one VT can read, just not the TC.
    I haven't tried useing a Toaster DV clip in another program, I'll give that a go and see what happens. but it doesn't sound promising.
    It sounds like VT handles TC very differently to other systems - this is probaly not a good thing for me.

  8. #8
    the only way to handle it is to manually enter the TC of the clip. you can change the TC of you clip in Premeiere and Vegas.

    its convient if you have a couple of clips to change but a pain if it's more.

    the best way to do this is to capture with scenealyzer because it embeds TC that can be used in either Ppro or Vegas. you can then use offset within VT to correct the TC.

    the tape index you create in scenealyzer is very convient in obtaining the correct TC.

    this is how i've been doing it for some time now.

  9. #9
    XDCAM HD production ScorpioProd's Avatar
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    Interesting... Hmmh... I don't have a FireStore yet, but I've been considering one, so this concerns me as well...

    Thing is, I agree that originally VT supported TC capture via a separate info file which would mean nothing to any other NLE...

    BUT... I am positive Andrew told me that as of 4.6c TC was embedded in the actual DV clip...

    I'll check into this with Andrew again.
    Eugene
    Scorpio Productions

  10. #10
    XDCAM HD production ScorpioProd's Avatar
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    Darn, well, I'm wrong, Andrew has confirmed it to me.

    So, looks like if you need TC from DV clips not captured in VT/SpeedEDIT, you are out of luck.
    Eugene
    Scorpio Productions

  11. #11
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    Thanks Eugene for getting a comformation on that.
    This is NOT GOOD - looks like I won't be upgrading as Speededit won't be as fast as they claim. Not digitizing your footage is a real time saver.


    I hope that Newtek starts to have a serious look at the timecode from other files issue - at the moment tape is still king but the times they are a changing. There are more and more hard drive, flash drive & optical drive cameras and 'imaging solutions' coming out and I want to use my Toaster.

    Rohan

  12. #12
    XDCAM HD production ScorpioProd's Avatar
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    Well, you've got me on the case now for keeping this fresh in their mind, so that should help.
    Eugene
    Scorpio Productions

  13. #13
    what's to stop you from manually entering TC for the clips you do use by using Edit Properties>All>Timecode offset.

    you can obtain the TC from the clips in your drive by scanning it with SClive. it will show the In/Outs of your clips

    2 drawback would be that 1) it is a tedious process if you have alot of clips and 2) you have to remember to shot your footage as Drop Frame because thats the only TC that VT (and possibly SE) will recognizes.

    if you shot NDF it will just get trunctuated as DF and your TC will be way off from the original.

  14. #14
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    Sure I could enter all the TC manually - but where's the speed advantage with that ? There are work arounds for most problems but I'd prefer to have things that just 'work' - especially when I have very tight deadlines.
    Scenalyzer is a great (& cheap) program that I use for nearly all my tape capturing & logging.
    I guess my point is that sometimes I am 'forced' to use a lesser edit program because Toaster cant do what these programs can (and they want me to pay AUS$1,000 for an upgrade that still cant do it)

    Thankfully I don't have to deal with your strange drop frame/non drop frame issues of NTSC (Never The Same Colour) as we are PAL downunder.

    cheers
    Rohan

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