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Thread: Nightmare before christmas

  1. #1
    Defender of Mankind Emmanuel's Avatar
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    Nightmare before christmas

    Hi folks,

    just watched this Tim Burton classic for the first time, blew me away, and the making of made me very modest.
    I mean, how dare I complain about LW's shortcomings if animating in LW is still 10 times easier and faster than doing it with real world stop motion ?
    NBC is absolutely stunning, I just don't get how they actually were able to achieve this, okay, took over three years to make, and still: technically its absolutely awesome.
    Stop motion is 90% very brutal hard work and repetitive tasks and 10% genius, even drawn movies are easier to manage and create !
    I bow down.
    Bye,
    Emmanuel

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  2. #2
    its interesting that even today with more advanced 3d animation some people still prefer stop motion or claymation type looks. Movies like Corpse Bride or Wallace and Gromit

  3. #3
    Super Member SplineGod's Avatar
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    I agree. Look at many great animated films that were done with technology nowhere near as powerful as what you have in LW.

  4. #4
    Defender of Mankind Emmanuel's Avatar
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    Technically, I don't find that claymation look better or worse than, let's say, The Incredibles, I guess that the lighting and textures must be easier to get realistic, but hinestly I don't see other reasons to still rely on claymation.
    In SW:Ep3 "Within a minute" they say that for that lava river on Mustafar, they used a real world model and real world "lava", and they said its because those fluids are way harder to recreate digitally.
    Sometimes, I really dunno, because I guess one artist for the rough landscape and one for the fluids should be anough, and it should take a week to create that scene digitally (when both artists are experts).
    Thats what maya fluids and zBrush are for.Fluids and rough landscapes.
    The true beauty of Nightmare before christmas is in the original designs and the story/idea/characters.The budget was around 30 million dollars back then.
    Probably, one reason for 1993's Nightmare was that computers and software wasn't good enough.
    Anyway, I missed Corpse bride in the theater, can't wait to get it on DVD
    Bye,
    Emmanuel

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  5. #5
    Gromit is mastah!


  6. #6
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    It's wierd, but even though I have spent hours doing lipsynch in the past, trying to get every shape just right- I still believe every word that come's out of Kermit the frogs mouth- he's real to me.

    A guy with a sock on his arm! How does that work?

    I guess if the perfomance is strong enough it just punches through the limits of any medium. Maybe we just worry too much!
    Last edited by Wonderpup; 01-04-2006 at 04:41 PM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Emmanuel
    Hi folks,

    just watched this Tim Burton classic for the first time, blew me away, and the making of made me very modest.
    I mean, how dare I complain about LW's shortcomings if animating in LW is still 10 times easier and faster than doing it with real world stop motion ?
    NBC is absolutely stunning, I just don't get how they actually were able to achieve this, okay, took over three years to make, and still: technically its absolutely awesome.
    Stop motion is 90% very brutal hard work and repetitive tasks and 10% genius, even drawn movies are easier to manage and create !
    I bow down.

    You should check out "the Corpse Bride". its a State of the Art stop motion film. Wonderfuly poigiont and small story. Some CG was used to enhance the stop motion. It was all shot with a high end Canon digital still camera.

  8. #8
    Registered User Mha8649's Avatar
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    OH I cant wait untill the 31 of this month so I can get corpse bride on dvd ...
    I would have went to the movies but I have a 3 yr old daughter and the last time I took her to the movies she got out of her seat and started playing duck duck goose with the people sitting in front of us ..So it's either drive ins or dvd ... but it looks great I loved .."Nightmare before christmas" I thought it looked awsome.

  9. #9
    Super Member Qexit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emmanuel
    Technically, I don't find that claymation look better or worse than, let's say, The Incredibles, I guess that the lighting and textures must be easier to get realistic, but hinestly I don't see other reasons to still rely on claymation.
    Please don't confuse Claymation and stop motion animation. Claymation is a type of stop motion animation but this is very different to the stop motion techniques used in 'Nightmare Before Christmas' and 'Corpse Bride'. Both of these use detailed models build on complex metal armatures. They have a characteristic look to them very different to claymation. If you want to see what one of these armatures looks like, albeit a very old one (they haven't actually changed that much) have a look at this forthcoming product release from Sideshow Collectibles:

    http://www.sideshowtoy.com/cgi-bin/c...181&type=store

    It's currently right at the top of my 'would like to own' list

    Quote Originally Posted by Emmanuel
    I guess that the lighting and textures must be easier to get realistic, but hinestly I don't see other reasons to still rely on claymation.
    I would imagine the lighting was probably pretty difficult as they were working on small sets that needed lots of access for the animators to get in and move around the characters. It was probably a nightmare to do. Also, realism in stop motion comes more from the skill of the animators than from the appearance of the models. A bit like Wonderpup said about always believing that Kermit is real even though he is clearly a puppet. When you watch him move and talk there is no effort involved in suspending your disbelief as it so well done. In fact, you have to try hard to convince yourself that he isn't alive rather than the other way around

    Quote Originally Posted by Emmanuel
    The true beauty of Nightmare before christmas is in the original designs and the story/idea/characters.The budget was around 30 million dollars back then.
    Probably, one reason for 1993's Nightmare was that computers and software wasn't good enough.
    You're definitely correct about the designs/story/idea/characters but wrong about the use of computers and software. Tim Burton specifically wanted to make a full-blown stop-motion film back 1993. He would not have used CGI even if had been up to scratch then. The same applies to Corpse Bride. CGI wasn't even considered even though it was available.

    I wonder what his next stop motion project will be ? He does seem to have caught the bug
    Kevin F Stubbs

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