View Poll Results: What should I do?

Voters
35. You may not vote on this poll
  • Do it for the experience, but strongly suggesting we buy an application soon.

    14 40.00%
  • Hold my ground, hoping that we will always go out of house for it.

    0 0%
  • Remove it from the computer and keep everything at home, removing the temptation.

    15 42.86%
  • Do it expecting no compensation for your program

    6 17.14%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 29

Thread: An ethics question...

  1. #1
    Witty remark goes here. TheDynamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    392

    An ethics question...

    Being a "traditional" motion graphics artist at our company, every once in a while this little quirk of mine comes up. Our company officially only owns After Effects, Photoshop, Illustrator, etc. It has no 3D capability of it's own.

    With permission of the company I've installed my personal copy of Lightwave 3D on the macintosh there with the purpose of training myself during slow times. The issue occasionally comes up where we need 3D done and while I would be happy to try and do it just to get the experience under my belt, I feel it's wrong for a company to ask that of it's employee without buying a 3D animation program of it's own first. I've suggested multiple times that we buy one since it would easily pay for itself with one or more projects but have been halted with the eternal "we'll talk about it with each other" runaround. Our company has plenty of cash that it could apply to this. Am I just crazy?

    -Rob
    Last edited by TheDynamo; 03-22-2005 at 12:03 AM.

  2. #2
    dynamics...so much fun ;) prospector's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    state of confusion
    Posts
    6,973
    Take it home, Make 3D there, sell to company for upgrade money
    Skype...lost_in_3d_space

    Sager
    I7-4800 OC'd to 3.3 GHz
    12G 1600mhz mem
    GTX 765M , 765 cores 1.5 Gig mem
    256 gigs raided SSD drive

  3. #3

    Produce

    Nevermind the ethics. I don't even think it's an ethiccs question per se. The question is whether you want to be an animator, 3D graphics artist or whatever your goal is.

    If you installed it at work to learn, then I assume you have a purpose to learn it. That means you have some kind of goal here.

    The financial side of it from the company's point of view is that - you are learning it. It is not a proven working instalation. Sure it could be. There's plenty of money there. But don't try and put the cart before the horse.

    If you want to be an animator or whatever your goal is then do it, do it as much and as often as you can. Do the best work you can do for the company and improve your skills along the way. You'll get a reel. If you get good the worst that could happen is you'll be making more bucks someplace else or start your own company. What the company does is another story and really irreleveant. Take the focus off them and on to your goals. The fact that you even have an oportunity to get work while you learn is a god send. If I were you I'd take it and run with it. I'd be there after hours too, my face deep in the manual!

    Oh, and don't forget to have fun!

    That is assuming this is what you want to do then like Denis Miller I'd have to say "Then again I could be worng - that's just my opinion."

    Mdust

  4. #4
    I agree, I don't think it's an ethics question, I think it's a personal choice question. I view Lightwave as one of the assets I can bring with me, the licence says I can use Lightwave anywhere - its the dongle that limits me to one machine at a time.

    You could play the clever game & get yourself into a position where you are the 3D guy, LW and all, and then pitch ideas that require the company to buy you some nice plugins (which the company might see as much cheaper than buying LW itself then buying the plugin)
    "They might look the same, but they don't taste the same."

  5. #5
    I agree with Mdust on this. It is also good that the company is allowing you to learn on their time. Work hard at it so they can see you as a good investment in the future. If they don't, then you will have the experience and the showreel to sell yourself elsewhere.

  6. #6
    How Old? Really? Aww Heck colkai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Staffordshire
    Posts
    7,804
    I run LW at work during my lunch hour, the only time the boss wanted some 3D doing, he expected me to do it in my own time, not during "work hours".
    I told him I was too busy, basically because the guy was looking for a free ride.
    If they pushed the matter, I'd simply remove it from my PC (which also happens to be my own "old" home PC - but that's another story )

    A few times since, they've tested the waters, I make a point of letting them know it would either be done on works time, or I would charge for it. That soon sorts them out.

    However, your story sounds somewhat different, if you are allowed to use LW during work hours, I think there is some sort of obligation to be hepful back. Certainly if my boss had been remotely genial about the matter, I would reconsider my present position. To me, it sounds like a pretty good opportunity you have there.

    As to them not buying LW - does it matter if you are getting to use it in a productive manner? As DMarkwick said, maybe it can be used as a means to get some plugins to help you. Even so, it's a great way to learn and who knows, it may branch out into a recurring role for you.
    Too old to die young.

  7. #7
    Witty remark goes here. TheDynamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    392

    Wink

    Interesting thoughts. So if I continue to have the program on the computer at work, perhaps I should volunteer it's use with the warning that I'm still new at it (which I am, being an old Softimage dog). I don't mind helping people out but also don't like being taken advantage of. If I come at it with the perspective of personal growth that I see mentioned frequently, I should share the growth with my company. Of course suggesting that the Account Executive's plan more time into projects for the use of 3D might be similar to asking the sun to rise in the west.

    Of course if the problem arises that they become reliant on my software as a free resource without paying for it, does it then become an issue I wonder.

    Thanks again -Rob

  8. #8
    I have my personal copy of Lightwave on my work computer to learn during lunch. I use Solidworks for everyday work and used to use it for customer presentations. I showed my supervisor my Lightwave 3D work and he thought it was very interesting. He gave me the option to model a new machine for a presentation for a customer during company time if I would like. I have done a couple now becuase they like the look. Bottom line for me is that I think it's great to get payed on company time, includes overtime if there's a tight deadline, to make an illustration and learn for other side jobs later. As for them purchasing a seat, the attitude is more of - if I can make a Lightwave rendering great, if not, they are happy with the Solidworks (CAD program) model.
    What's infamous?
    It's when your more than famous. You are not only famous but in-famous.

  9. #9
    Remember Wade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Cypress Texas
    Posts
    1,383
    With the Architecture firm I used to work for they would not buy Photoshop this was the 4.0 days - Well I bought a scanner and PS learned them both. Three years later I bought Lightwave learned and used at the company. Well my Income almost doubled in four years and the company eventually paid me for all the software purchased as I had kept the receipts. I think you will be known for being a go-getter if you push the envelope with your training. Some times you need to be the one with vision and the will to make it happen.

    WADE

  10. #10
    CORE 5718 mattclary's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Tallahassee, Florida
    Posts
    5,228
    Wish I could change my vote. I voted to take it home, that way they couldn't make the demand of you. Don't know what I was smoking. I wish my office would come to me and say, "Can you make this in LightWave for us?".

  11. #11
    Perpetual Newbie
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    US
    Posts
    238
    You could always offer to make it at home, on a freelance basis, where they pay you something extra for the model. You could make your rate pretty low, since you're just learning. Once you remove the convenience and free product, they may suddenly decide they can afford to buy a copy of LW after all. Maybe you could offer to let them buy a second seat for you (at the low, low current price of $495-595, depending on how you take your documentation), which you could install at the office for their benefit, and from which you could make models at no additional cost to them (however, you retain ownership of the second copy of LW).

    I tried the do-it-for-free--(well, basic salary)--on-my-copy-of-Quark for a company I worked for back in my early design days. Mostly, I got exploited. The projects they had me work on were not enough to really develop the professional skills I needed to work as a designer, and I wasted too many years there, thinking I was going to get ahead. Wade's answer is really good, if it works out that way for you, but remember that you're taking a gamble.

    BTW, your employer is the one with the ethics problem.
    Last edited by Marcia; 03-22-2005 at 11:47 AM.

  12. #12
    CORE 5718 mattclary's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Tallahassee, Florida
    Posts
    5,228
    If you do it at work, you ARE getting paid to do it.

  13. #13
    Perpetual Newbie
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    US
    Posts
    238
    Quote Originally Posted by mattclary
    If you do it at work, you ARE getting paid to do it.
    If you do it at work, but are buying your own tools, you are getting under-paid to do it.
    Last edited by Marcia; 03-22-2005 at 11:51 AM.

  14. #14
    Super Member Chris S. (Fez)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    2,904
    MHO:

    If you get paid to complete a Lightwave project at work and they are impressed, the worst they can do is offer to pay you for more Lightwave work.

    Consider it an opportunity to pitch Lightwave. If you feel your present wage would not count as fair compensation for your Lightwave work, then simply bump your rate (within reason) to cover "software expenses."

  15. #15
    CORE 5718 mattclary's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Tallahassee, Florida
    Posts
    5,228
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcia
    If you do it at work, but are buying your own tools, you are getting under-paid to do it.
    He bought LightWave on his own, they didn't require him to buy it. It's an opportunity to have fun (I LIKE using LightWave) and learn on the company dime. He get's to take the dongle home at night, so he is out nothing.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •