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Thread: Those Lousy, Leaky Lights again

  1. #1
    Curmudgeon in Training Ma3rk's Avatar
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    Those Lousy, Leaky Lights again

    I filed a bug report on this a long time ago. Heard nothing and this has been going on since 2018. So, maybe it's time to start squeeking a bit louder.

    New set, same issue. This time the lights are simple point lights in sconces. For testing purposes I made sure ALL surfaces had 0% spec, Glossy reflections OFF, and Raytrace only and gave the point lights different colors in order to see the culprits. The walls have geometry, not single sided polys.

    I made a wire overlay, & as you can see from the positions of the sconces in the outer hallway that they're completely ignoring the geometry.

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    And yes, these render, it's not just a VPR issue.

    Is there a remedy for this? Going in & excluding things for the lights is just stupid and in this case not really possible. The lights shouldn't be doing this in the first place. Or is there something I've completely overlooked?
    "Never be a cat in a cartoon. Never." Chief Wiggum

  2. #2
    Curmudgeon in Training Ma3rk's Avatar
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    Well, I was overlooking something. Point lights at least get added with Ray Trace Shadows OFF. Turning those on they now respect the geometry.
    "Never be a cat in a cartoon. Never." Chief Wiggum

  3. #3
    I haven't encountered this yet. Does it just happen with point lights or other light types?
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  4. #4
    Curmudgeon in Training Ma3rk's Avatar
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    Tested with a few other types & they do it too. I'm a bit baffled as to why THAT is the default. I mean, where would you use that in the first place; a light that shows through all of your geometry?
    "Never be a cat in a cartoon. Never." Chief Wiggum

  5. #5
    NewTek Developer jameswillmott's Avatar
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    Are your sconces 'shell' geometry, ie, just single sided?
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  6. #6
    Curmudgeon in Training Ma3rk's Avatar
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    No, they're fully modeled & using a dielectric surface.
    "Never be a cat in a cartoon. Never." Chief Wiggum

  7. #7
    Point lights in 2019 behave oddly. I've pretty much stopped using them because I get all kinds of errors with them. Instead I either use a spotlight set to a high angle or a spherical light (though those tend to chew up render time)
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  8. #8
    NewTek Developer jameswillmott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ma3rk View Post
    I filed a bug report on this a long time ago.
    What's the report number?
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  9. #9
    Curmudgeon in Training Ma3rk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lwanmtr View Post
    Point lights in 2019 behave oddly. I've pretty much stopped using them because I get all kinds of errors with them. Instead I either use a spotlight set to a high angle or a spherical light (though those tend to chew up render time)
    I didn't want to go through the process of primitive lights for the sconces light I did for the other practicals I added. Outer hallway, above the eyeline... But it now expains issues way back with 2018 that I could never resolve.

    I'd say give 'em a try again, just remembering to enable shadows.
    "Never be a cat in a cartoon. Never." Chief Wiggum

  10. #10
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ma3rk View Post
    Tested with a few other types & they do it too. I'm a bit baffled as to why THAT is the default. I mean, where would you use that in the first place; a light that shows through all of your geometry?
    It sounds more like coincidental side-effect, not an intentional effect of that control -- as you note, lights generally not obeying geometry isn't particularly useful, esp. without at least control over which geometry gets ignored. If that's indeed the default, then that also seems like a UX issue, even if it only impacted shadows' behavior.

    If that IS intentional behavior for that control, it shouldn't be. Even setting the default setting UX issue aside, that's horrible labeling as well, because whether shadows are ray-traced and whether lights obey geometry really aren't the same thing -- they're conceptually related impacts, but still represent significantly different use case scenarios. Better the two effects should have independent controls, and ensure the "obeys geometry" setting supports inclusion/exclusion control.
    Last edited by jwiede; 06-22-2019 at 04:16 PM.
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  11. #11
    If you want to create unnatural glows, etc then having a light that will show through all your geometry is useful.
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  12. #12
    Curmudgeon in Training Ma3rk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lwanmtr View Post
    If you want to create unnatural glows, etc then having a light that will show through all your geometry is useful.

    But not as a default though certainly.
    "Never be a cat in a cartoon. Never." Chief Wiggum

  13. #13
    Maybe its a test to see if folks are paying attention to settings...hehe
    Rob Depew
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  14. #14
    Not so newbie member lardbros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ma3rk View Post
    I didn't want to go through the process of primitive lights for the sconces light I did for the other practicals I added. Outer hallway, above the eyeline... But it now expains issues way back with 2018 that I could never resolve.

    I'd say give 'em a try again, just remembering to enable shadows.
    I've tried it here, and point lights are added with shadows enabled. Maybe it's some weird config issue? Worth deleting them, to see if it's that?
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  15. #15
    Curmudgeon in Training Ma3rk's Avatar
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    Last night I added some point lights to a new set & they came in with Shadows enabled so you might be correct. I've had a few other "I know I set that" quirks. Worth keeping an eye on anyway.
    "Never be a cat in a cartoon. Never." Chief Wiggum

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