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Thread: David Ridlen post on why NT marketing & communication needs improvement....Will it?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrgiger View Post
    Absolutely, a lot of people will migrate to Blender. For some it will be a replacement for other apps while other people will just add it to their toolset. I think the issue here is that the apps you listed are known for being dominant in certain things and all of them will keep focusing on those things because they know that is where their bread is buttered. Houdini for high end vfx, Maya for film/animation, Max for games/archviz, Modo for asset creation, C4D for motion graphics... which leaves LW the odd man out because its not known for being strong in a certain area other than being a lower cost alternative but then, no one beats Blender at that game. LW (in my opinion) needs to find something to excel at and focus on it. The generalized approach isn't cutting it. Back in the day, back when LW was visible it was known for having an exceptional modeling and rendering package out of the box. That just isn't the case these days, at least in terms of what else is available now.


    I resisted Blender for a long time, didn't like its workflow but 2.8 is finally approaching something in the realm of sanity and I've been enjoying it these last several months, but its just another app, I don't consider it an alternative to anything, just another tool in the box.
    I don't think lightwave is the only odd one out here.
    Modo's bread and butter is under serious assault from zbrush and other sculpting solutions.
    It's only a matter of time before it is rendered redundant in asset creation if development does not pick up pace in other departments.
    That said, blender seems to be gunning for everyone.
    Even AD products will not be safe at some point in the future, if the current trend in the blender community continues that is.

  2. #17
    Registered User gdkeast's Avatar
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    For me, all these programs are a means to an end, and whichever program gets you where you want to be the most efficiently and cost-effectively will have a place somewhere. My biggest issue is that I actually like LightWave a lot and I'm extremely comfortable with it, and for that reason alone, it is my tool of choice. I know Blender is all the rage, but for the type of stuff I'm doing (short little films, 3D graphics, logos, a few effects here and there), there's no reason for me to jump ship on LightWave. How I feel about LW is truly how I feel about using a trusty tool. There might be others out there that are better or flashier, but I just like LightWave. But this is coming from a person who still uses Photoshop CS6 because it still does everything I need it to.

    And to be fair, despite everything, LightWave was used in Green Book, and that film did win an Academy Award for Best Picture, so, in my mind, LW is still showing itself as a capable tool no matter whatever chaos is going on.
    Last edited by gdkeast; 04-26-2019 at 01:38 AM.

  3. #18
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    thing is, you are in the minority

  4. #19

    getting closer to 2020, LightWave should add >

    endomorph tweak L/M
    workplane option L/M
    true boolean operations L/M
    weightpaint L/M  (further development)
    polygon tweaking L/M
    rounding, non-destructive L/M
    lattice L/M (natively)
    lock layers L/M
    array functions (advanced) L/M
    instancing L/M
    polygon islands functions L/M
    groups L/M
    sculpting features L/M
    texture paint L/M
    real-time modeling tools L/M
    point-edge-poly selection L/M

    important; L/M means that these functions should appear in both Layout & Modeler

    also; the future of all modern 3D apps is to be able to tweak models in "render-view"
    Last edited by erikals; 04-26-2019 at 04:22 AM.
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  5. #20
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gdkeast View Post
    For me, all these programs are a means to an end, and whichever program gets you where you want to be the most efficiently and cost-effectively will have a place somewhere. My biggest issue is that I actually like LightWave a lot and I'm extremely comfortable with it, and for that reason alone, it is my tool of choice. I know Blender is all the rage, but for the type of stuff I'm doing (short little films, 3D graphics, logos, a few effects here and there), there's no reason for me to jump ship on LightWave. How I feel about LW is truly how I feel about using a trusty tool. There might be others out there that are better or flashier, but I just like LightWave. But this is coming from a person who still uses Photoshop CS6 because it still does everything I need it to.

    And to be fair, despite everything, LightWave was used in Green Book, and that film did win an Academy Award for Best Picture, so, in my mind, LW is still showing itself as a capable tool no matter whatever chaos is going on.
    In all honesty, and with respect to David Ridlens work...(I love the guys work and so do many others) the fact that The Green Book won the oscar for best film, may actually have little to do with the vfx work(it could have ment a lot as well),But if it had won the VFX award it would have been a completely different level of acknowledgement to Both Davidīs work and the tools he used.

    The latest 2 years, I have been more interested in learning blender and that is probably where I will focus my 3d stuff in the near future, that said..I did buy in to the latest Lightwave since I think it does some stuff that I like to do..much better than blender, modo and in some cases even compared to Houdini, but it is also full of changes from past versions I do not like and it is still behind in many areas, I still Love the Lightwave way too much and some of the recent volumetric stuff was too interesting to pass out on.

    But they really need to put more effort on fixing what was lightwave strengths that they iI think they lost, ease of use and speedy render..that means refreshing UI, donīt mess up workflow with node "Only" workflows..and getting a native GPU solution, or they face a relentless compitition against blender.

  6. #21

    still, they should've included his work somewhere.
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  7. #22
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    Lightwave is, despite its flaws, a capable tool, and it is getting better at a decent pace. However, Newtek should be doing a better job of showing this off, which means cultivating better relationships with prominent creators, or doing more with the relationships they have. I think the new management team has been doing great work showing off the work of prominent plugin developers, and internal tutorials and documentation, and this aspect of lw looks more vibrant than it has in a while, but there has clearly been drop-off in professional level work being shown off even though clearly professional work is still being done. Green Book is an example of that. Even if David Ridlin's poor support experience was atypical, it seems to me that Newtek should definitely be working harder on this. Clearly just having professional creators among the beta users is not enough.

    Just look at the Newsletters. there hasn't been an article about a creator or artist since 2017. even though lightwave was used on the best picture winner! Without good artist outreach all these great new features that we are getting run the risk of dying on the vine.

  8. #23
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    Lightwave users used to be spoiled for choice with printed books and dvds, and though I can't visualise any LW printed books being released again for a good while, one unfortunate mishap which was in no way NT's fault was the Kurv fiasco because that took down an entire complete LW visual learning library at a stroke. Old news yes, but they have never been comprehensively updated or replaced. The void from Splinegod, and William departing for pastures green (alright, Modo), was never properly filled again in my view.

    One thing I found amusing was a contrasting ethos from some LW users. For example, I saw a Blender character modelling tutorial where he said (paraphrased) "It's about constantly practicing and growing your skills with each iteration". Compare to Larry with Lightwave, "Make just one ear, then use it for the rest of your life". Someone tell me that isn't totally hilarious.
    Last edited by TheLexx; 04-26-2019 at 05:08 AM.

  9. #24
    Not so newbie member lardbros's Avatar
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    David Ridlen is spot on...

    Unfortunately, LW doesn't get enough decent marketing. It's not a slur on Chuck's work, or anyone else's in Newtek's marketing... but it's always been quite poor.
    When other developers are pushing meetings with customers, and doing showings of their work, NewTek doesn't do this.

    I do think NewTek needs a dedicated person for LW marketing, but it's always left to someone with the dedication rather than an actual role of chief marketer.
    I don't know how all other app developers do it, but the ones I've seen, like Allegorithmic, have a lot of people pushing their tools. They have a lot of people working with them to make sure their tools are production ready and all that.

    NewTek don't do this. Probably budgetary constraints, but they've proven this time and again that this isn't their focus, or forte at all. It's a shame as it's so easy to get it right... and Chuck has made the blog better than it would be normally. But still, it's a full-time job... and someone has to do it if LW is to attempt to regain some more traction.

    Not being negative, just trying to be honest. But I've said this for decades. The only time it got better was when Rob first took over and started being an evangelist. Stuff did go wrong in the end, but he was actually good for promoting LW.
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  10. #25
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gar26lw View Post
    thing is, you are in the minority
    In the world, or the 3D domain, certainly. In these forums, perhaps not. Rather, my impression is that there are quite some number who find some advantages in LW that retain their interest, and a vocal handful who - having largely moved on - linger for reasons best understood by themselves. The former (larger) group tend to be less vociferous, and certainly these will be interested in - even somewhat concerned about - LW's future. (I won't say there's nothing really new there, because there are new players on the field, and no-one knows at this point whether that will change things or not.)

    I think we'd hear more from the majority if they didn't feel like every time they open their mouth someone from the second group will quickly jump in to rain on their parade. (As an aside, I regularly receive requests or remarks to the effect that we should just ban the detractors ... but failing to allow criticism is not a good path, so as it is you really have to to push the limits of tolerance beyond all reason to earn a ban.)
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  11. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Hail View Post
    I don't think lightwave is the only odd one out here.
    Modo's bread and butter is under serious assault from zbrush and other sculpting solutions.
    It's only a matter of time before it is rendered redundant in asset creation if development does not pick up pace in other departments.
    That said, blender seems to be gunning for everyone.
    Even AD products will not be safe at some point in the future, if the current trend in the blender community continues that is.
    Zbrush and other sculpting apps are great for what they do and I love Zbrush more than anything but they will never replace a polygonal modeling application. Some tasks are better suited to the Zbrush workflow but some things are so much simpler in polygonal modeling apps that allow for easier precision, scale and manipulation.

    And Blender is great. But AD products have little to fear from it, at least any time soon.

  12. #27
    Founding member raymondtrace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lardbros View Post
    ...marketing...

    ...they've proven this time and again that this isn't their focus, or forte at all. It's a shame as it's so easy to get it right... and Chuck has made the blog better than it would be normally. But still, it's a full-time job... and someone has to do it if LW is to attempt to regain some more traction...
    A skim of the glassdoor site shows some enlightening commentary from former marketing employees.

    As a small glimmer of hope (also in the context of the acquisition) NT recently posted a new job opening this month, planned since January. It suggests some intended growth in marketing (or maybe it's just refilling a recently vacated position). Hopefully they can get it right.

    (If a marketing employee is seeing this... why are there no Marketo munchkins in these forums? That seems like an easy win. If you need help, there are people here willing to assist, gratis [LWB-4021].)
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrgiger View Post
    Zbrush and other sculpting apps are great for what they do and I love Zbrush more than anything but they will never replace a polygonal modeling application.
    Agreed. Probably due to influence of ZBrush's reputation, there is a certain perception that sculpting is a first and automatically superior choice followed by the retopology, when a traditional workflow might have been much better at the outset. I am still amazed by Angela Guenette's work in Blender for the Sintel character, yet this is generally considered an outdated workflow today. Here is a short trailer - the highlighted comment by Romick is not quite how I would have put it(!) but I agree.

    Same for the Warner McGee Modo character, which could easily be photoreal with the same workflow. In contrast, a character project started in ZBrush by the talented Blair Armitage, but note the project time of two years (on the side).

    At one time LW had similar resources, but users probably have a better chance of winning the lottery than obtaining these today. The power is defintely there but a new user wouldn't necessarily know that.
    Last edited by TheLexx; 04-26-2019 at 12:15 PM.

  14. #29

    SBowie I regularly receive requests or remarks to the effect that we should just ban the detractors
    those users should write that very same message in public / at these forums.
    i get why they do it, but it is rather ridiculous imo. they should speak up, or forever hold their peace.

    ... but failing to allow criticism is not a good path, so as it is you really have to to push the limits of tolerance beyond all reason to earn a ban.
    thanks, at a time where LightWave lacks features and feedback from NewTek,
    i think the last thing one would need is a banning of users that are verbal about it.

    also, the "critics" give constructive criticism less these days (including me)
    hammering the same nail gets to be tiring, it just won't move.
    but to think that old users abandon LightWave because of the negativity on this forum is, not very sharp.


    Last edited by erikals; 04-26-2019 at 11:42 AM.
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  15. #30
    Super Member Chris S. (Fez)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrgiger View Post
    Some tasks are better suited to the Zbrush workflow but some things are so much simpler in polygonal modeling apps that allow for easier precision, scale and manipulation.
    Yup.

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