Page 1 of 15 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 215

Thread: David Ridlen post on why NT marketing & communication needs improvement....Will it?

  1. #1
    Super Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Washington DC
    Posts
    3,620

    David Ridlen post on why NT marketing & communication needs improvement....Will it?

    Mr David Riddlen posted this poniangt comment of this thread from the facebook Lightwave 3d support group on facebook.:

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/ligh...2423310530326/
    It a great comment on the status of Lightwave in the industry and how their marketing and communication departments sometimes seem to be asleep at the wheel.
    NOTE: Ironically, I need to state that I LOOVE this forum.
    And you guys are doing a great job at it.

    Here is his full post
    "David Ridlen It comes down to jobs. If I needed to ramp up a crew for a project, there is WAAAY more experienced Maya talent available. The best Lightwave artists I worked with have moved to Maya or Houdini long ago, because development for those apps kept up with the needs of feature production, where there is the highest benchmark for CG. LW dev stumbled for too many years, which I think had a lot to do with a programmer being appointed head of dev, instead of someone who understands production. NT finally got back on track after someone with production experience was head of dev. I dont know why Powers suddenly left, but it is not a good indicator.
    Yes, LW fans are biased. The only reason LW is chosen over the other major apps was because it was cheaper. It is not generally "better" or "easier," although you may think that, because it is what you are most familiar with. Each app has pluses and minuses. I worked with Maya and Max teams who were just as capable of turning out excellent work, in the same amount of time, if not better or faster. But LW has not had the same degree of support internally or from third parties.
    I am the last person I can find who is regularly using LW in feature production. And I dont mean for just an occasional model or render. I supervised the most extensive use of LW in a feature film, which was Sin City. But I saw no mention of it at Newtek's Siggraph booth that year, while Eyeon had Sin City demos prominently looping on several screens. I contributed work to Pixel Magic for 17 years, which is the only company to use LW for key FX and character/creature animations in major studio movies. I dont mean just hard surfaces and set extensions, or just for shorts and direct-to-cable. I mean theatrical features. And yet, Newtek has always been notoriously "absent" from support of the companies I worked for. Any time we offered our work for LW demo reels, NT was not interested. When we compiled feature requests, or contacted Newtek about projects with special requirements, NT was difficult to uncooperative. I dont know why. But has been their own funeral. Third party support from other apps keeps dwindling. LW is capable for certain tasks. But so many senior artists and post houses roll their eyes at the mention of NT.
    If I ramped up a big project using LW, and say I wanted to accomplish dozens or hundreds of FX shots for a feature, I expect NT to step up and say, "Great, what can we do to help?" But they have never exhibited the least interest in anything I worked on, including the Oscar winning Green Book(?).
    The best example of support I ever experienced was from the RealFlow guys at Next Limit. They were AWESOME! 19 years ago, a few of us were using RF v1 for some direct-to-video projects, and I started emailing support about issues. They were in the opposite day zone in Spain, and would usually patch the software overnight, sending me fixes daily and weekly! I sent over 80 emails, and they greatly developed RF, because they were ambitious, and recognized I was pushing the limitations of RF, and that it was mutually beneficial to cater to the needs of our production. They gave me free licenses since I accidentally became their main beta-tester, and produced cool stuff for their reel, which contributed to them expanding their market. That is how it should work.
    If Newtek is not aiming to compete in production, then who is their demographic? Who here relies on LW for their animation/FX career?"
    Last edited by robertoortiz; 04-24-2019 at 07:12 AM.
    This message does not reflect the opinions of the US Government, CG Networks or CGTALK.com. The opinions expressed on this posting are on my own volition.

  2. #2
    Registered User gdkeast's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Hawaii
    Posts
    131
    As a relative newcomer to LW, I don't know all the backstory, but I have nothing but admiration for Mr. Ridlen and the work he has done with LW. A case can be made that he is sort of the last of the Mohicans. I guess it all comes down to perspective. He has traveled the road much farther than I have and from his perspective, he sees the good, the bad, and the ugly. From mine, I just see a 3D program that I'm using to get into the world of CGI with an eye for creating my own films, maybe not feature films, but short films that I can pull off on my own. TBH, I was concerned about where LW was heading, but with 2018 and 2019, it was hard not to feel that NT was repositioning LW for the future. And I still hope that's the case. He is definitely one of the bright stars for LW and you'd think someone would be reaching out to him for marketing purposes alone. Personally, I would love to see him put together some tutorials on his work flows and would gladly pay for them. I don't yet rely on LW for my livelihood, but I hope to someday. I think it's a great program that just needs some love.

  3. #3
    Registered User 3dhotshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Durban
    Posts
    260
    Wow this post is spot on I'm not a big fx guy like mr Rid but over the years you will notice maybe 10 or less tutorial features in 3D world at a time years ago when yes lw was far ahead of other apps, yet poor 3rd party support and the lack off dev improvements as compared to modo for example pushed lw further and further down the list and we are right now at the bottom of the list. Look at C4D / 3dsmax / maya etc why do they have every single plugin under the sun coming out of every crack and hole at the speed of light! It has taken sometime and luck - only recently have 3rd party apps started to look decent in terms of support in and out of lw
    ( via fbx alembic ) ~ List of Vfx software integration with lightwave

    P.S. This is why people have looked at me like I'm an alien when they see I'm working in Lightwave yet am still producing renders way faster than both C4D and the Modo Team at last studio I worked in LW at 4k res was pushing out photo real renders in 5 to 7 minutes whilst modo at 15 to 20minutes at same level of quality, as for C4D team renders where extremely long and washed out not looking correct. yet theY had to purchase plugins
    to do what I was doing natively inside lightwave 2015.3 and this was during 2016/2017/2018.

    P.P.S. It is a promising time though for lw it is sad what has happened to a great platform with the fastest best native renderer available for many years was for a time. 2015.3

    P.P.P.S. I had actually left my last studio since when the C4D Team arrived they where given awards yet I was still far ahead in terms of speed, turnaround time, quality and crushed nearly every project worked on.
    yet they always pushed me to move over to C4D, I was promised many awards and never got any, Did not feel right working there when lightwave was winning over a few million big ones every time for the C4d guys to get handed over the follow through projects so I left. Also they would get a week to work on a pitch lazy *** c4d team, but for lightwave 2 days or 1 day and you get work that c4d guys cannot do. all look in silence and walk.

    This is the F...kd up world we live in pffff !!!
    Last edited by 3dhotshot; 04-24-2019 at 12:06 PM.

  4. #4
    Registered User gdkeast's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Hawaii
    Posts
    131
    This is actually one of my favorite quotes from Mr. Ridlen. I don't know him but he seems like a pretty straight shooter.

    David Ridlen LW post:
    I just despise the rigid complexity of all things computer related, that inherently oppose spontaneous creativity. The majority of my time is spent troubleshooting and cursing. I rarely get to enjoy the work since it is usually a process of such incremental achievement, I dont get to sit back and take in an overall result with surprise. Each iteration is usually a small step forward, 'Ok, that one glitch is fixed... but now that is screwed up. That doesn't look right.' Redo, render it again, and again, and again... until I cannot see it objectively anymore. I stare at the final animation looping, trying to see it objectively, but I can't tell the effect of what I did anymore. The process is so mired in technical convolution, I find computer animation to be too much of an endurance test to fully enjoy, as opposed to more organically immediate art forms. It requires a certain, high-functioning form of OCD ("perfectionist" is the more flattering term), that takes precedence over social life, proper sleep, and trying to not throw things. I think I have just been doing it too long.

  5. #5
    NewTek Social Media Chuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    San Antonio, TX
    Posts
    6,364
    Honestly not sure where to start with a reply to this. I guess just to note that all LightWave management up to and including Rob Powers had production experience. None of them were a programmer. Jay Roth, Rob's immediate predecessor sometimes gets mistaken for being on the engineering side since he co-founded Electric Image and has led other development teams, but check his IMDB page and his background of production experience with both practical and CG visual effects is extensive. He just happens to be a user who can also engage the technical side to design and specify projects and lead them.

    It is also the case that NewTek has always maintained film and television effects production users on our beta corp, and also users from a number of other industries that use 3D. We work to be as responsive as we can to the feedback in beta and to feedback from the full userbase. If anyone feels disappointed with the interactions, we're sorry that's the case, and we'll work to do better within the resources we have.
    Chuck Baker
    Senior Manager of Communications
    NewTek, Inc.
    NewTek.com
    LightWave3D.com
    NewTek USA Facebook
    Twitter
    LinkedIn
    Software Developer's Dilemma: The better the new feature, the more feature requests it will generate. - C. Baker
    Please note that any statements regarding future product development are forward looking and subject to change without notice.

  6. #6
    Registered User 3dhotshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Durban
    Posts
    260
    A trip down memory lane when this was happening .... at the the #1 spot in film industry cg goes to lw

    There's no doubt that 1999 is shaping up to be one of the best ever
    for NewTek. Hot off of the independent research study that found
    that Lightwave 3D dominates more than 50 percent of seats in the
    broadcast and film industry, NewTek will introduce a new version of its popular
    program and some new products. Let the revolution begin!

    A recent independent study by Jon Peddle Associates
    showed that LightWave 3D has a greater than 50 percent hold
    on the film and bioadcast 3D market! "LightWave 3D has the
    largest installed base far and above any other 3D package on
    the market according to om recent study on 3D applications."
    said Jon Peddle Associates' senior analyst. Wanda Melom
    Studies like this and years of hard woik seem to be paying off
    for NewTek, which lias taken many gambles and now looks to
    score the jackpot 1

  7. #7
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    a place
    Posts
    1,756
    Quote Originally Posted by 3dhotshot View Post
    Wow this post is spot on I'm not a big fx guy like mr Rid but over the years you will notice maybe 10 or less tutorial features in 3D world at a time years ago when yes lw was far ahead of other apps, yet poor 3rd party support and the lack off dev improvements as compared to modo for example pushed lw further and further down the list and we are right now at the bottom of the list. Look at C4D / 3dsmax / maya etc why do they have every single plugin under the sun coming out of every crack and hole at the speed of light! It has taken sometime and luck - only recently have 3rd party apps started to look decent in terms of support in and out of lw
    ( via fbx alembic ) ~ List of Vfx software integration with lightwave

    P.S. This is why people have looked at me like I'm an alien when they see I'm working in Lightwave yet am still producing renders way faster than both C4D and the Modo Team at last studio I worked in LW at 4k res was pushing out photo real renders in 5 to 7 minutes whilst modo at 15 to 20minutes at same level of quality, as for C4D team renders where extremely long and washed out not looking correct. yet theY had to purchase plugins
    to do what I was doing natively inside lightwave 2015.3 and this was during 2016/2017/2018.

    P.P.S. It is a promising time though for lw it is sad what has happened to a great platform with the fastest best native renderer available for many years was for a time. 2015.3

    P.P.P.S. I had actually left my last studio since when the C4D Team arrived they where given awards yet I was still far ahead in terms of speed, turnaround time, quality and crushed nearly every project worked on.
    yet they always pushed me to move over to C4D, I was promised many awards and never got any, Did not feel right working there when lightwave was winning over a few million big ones every time for the C4d guys to get handed over the follow through projects so I left. Also they would get a week to work on a pitch lazy *** c4d team, but for lightwave 2 days or 1 day and you get work that c4d guys cannot do. all look in silence and walk.

    This is the F...kd up world we live in pffff !!!
    2015 renderer. needs someone to add pbr material nodes to it.

    i wonder if you would be matching them in the new renderer? would/do you still use lw with the new renderer?

  8. #8

    But they have never exhibited the least interest in anything I worked on, including the Oscar winning Green Book(?).
    it puzzles me, and makes me wonder if Ridlen contacted a NT employee on the lower latter. who knows.  

    marketing aside, i feel LightWave is going in the right direction.
    now they just need to figure out what to do to Modeler. (rewrite/upgrade/unify)
    LW vidz   DPont donate   LightWiki   RHiggit   IKBooster   My vidz

  9. #9
    Speaking of prominent LW users, I see Chris Jones just posted an amazing new Human rig in Blender.



  10. #10
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    a place
    Posts
    1,756
    yeah, sorta sucks. I see Bryphi pulled all his lw videos on youtube, which were a great resource.
    Louis D jumped, which is a shame as his blog was great. Now chris.
    You can read them chatting about that here plus a bit more info
    https://blenderartists.org/t/human-progress/1143224/11

    so, if all these great artists who shared tips and tricks for lw, showing what can be done are gone, then what?
    i used a lot of these for ref when needed in projects.
    lwg really needs a slap across the face. wake up! you’re doing it wrong.

  11. #11
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    sweden stockholm
    Posts
    14,711
    It just need a native GPU supporter ..Fast rendering, some modeling tools in layout and further enhancement on non destructive modeling, some tiding up on the UI, do something about fiberfx renderspeed (which may be solved with the GPU rendering)
    And native fluid solution that can actually render PBR volumetrics.
    And more fixing of undo system

    There you go..that is the required sole of the shoes..to keep on walking, now fix it and then start market it as a quite decent out of the box, state of the art, unprecendented 3D tool seriously..those words may do more harm these days than good.

  12. #12
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    sweden stockholm
    Posts
    14,711
    Quote Originally Posted by gar26lw View Post
    yeah, sorta sucks. I see Bryphi pulled all his lw videos on youtube, which were a great resource.
    Louis D jumped, which is a shame as his blog was great. Now chris.
    You can read them chatting about that here plus a bit more info
    https://blenderartists.org/t/human-progress/1143224/11

    so, if all these great artists who shared tips and tricks for lw, showing what can be done are gone, then what?
    i used a lot of these for ref when needed in projects.
    lwg really needs a slap across the face. wake up! you’re doing it wrong.
    I bought it anyway, though I was highly unsure, not many in the market over here that has Lightwave as required skills, it needs to offer something that others don´t..and it needs to offer something that is to come rather than what already is.

  13. #13

    many artists keep moving to Blender,

    but i think it would be a huge mistake to think that that goes for LightWave only.

    i'm sure you'll find many from Maya/Max/Modo/C4D doing the same thing.

    the future of all of these apps is to excel where Blender does not.


    so, no time to sleep.

    LW vidz   DPont donate   LightWiki   RHiggit   IKBooster   My vidz

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post
    many artists keep moving to Blender,

    but i think it would be a huge mistake to think that that goes for LightWave only.

    i'm sure you'll find many from Maya/Max/Modo/C4D doing the same thing.

    the future of all of these apps is to excel where Blender does not.


    so, no time to sleep.

    Absolutely, a lot of people will migrate to Blender. For some it will be a replacement for other apps while other people will just add it to their toolset. I think the issue here is that the apps you listed are known for being dominant in certain things and all of them will keep focusing on those things because they know that is where their bread is buttered. Houdini for high end vfx, Maya for film/animation, Max for games/archviz, Modo for asset creation, C4D for motion graphics... which leaves LW the odd man out because its not known for being strong in a certain area other than being a lower cost alternative but then, no one beats Blender at that game. LW (in my opinion) needs to find something to excel at and focus on it. The generalized approach isn't cutting it. Back in the day, back when LW was visible it was known for having an exceptional modeling and rendering package out of the box. That just isn't the case these days, at least in terms of what else is available now.


    I resisted Blender for a long time, didn't like its workflow but 2.8 is finally approaching something in the realm of sanity and I've been enjoying it these last several months, but its just another app, I don't consider it an alternative to anything, just another tool in the box.

  15. #15
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    The stars at night are big and bright
    Posts
    19,331
    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post
    it puzzles me, and makes me wonder if Ridlen contacted a NT employee on the lower latter. who knows.
    Either way, I don't think anyone here would contend that NewTek was blameless, never having dropped the ball in this (or most) LW contexts. Sadly, such is all too easy, which is not meant to make excuses but rather a candid observation.
    --
    Regards, Steve
    Forum Moderator
    ("You've got to ask yourself one question ... 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya, spammer?")

Page 1 of 15 12311 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •