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Thread: Mi experience with TC410, CS 460 and AE3

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    My experience with TC410, CS 460 and AE3

    Hello, I updated my TC410 AE2 to AE3 last friday. The full process was Ok, or so we thought. Today, monday, we have had a live event at 12 noon. At 9 am, I begun our check list before on-air, did some additional tests, and this is what I found:

    *Since I passed the weekend reading AE3 manual and surfing Newtek forums, I did know I have to changes some configs. For instance, no more H.264 distribution in recording configuration, Ok, but it happens that using the same button for streaming/encoding has two big issues: first, I can't config two different setups (quality, Codec...) separately for each job (because there's only one stream, instead of two, as the TC1, AFAIK ), and second, if I use both (with the same setup) I can not check if I'm serving the stream right or not. In AE2, while streaming I could watch the time counter going on, if everything is ok, or frozen if there is some problem (if server or link are down, say; and yes, I could open a web browser to checking, but that method is well enough)

    *AUDIO INPUT1 ignored my previous setup as LINE (audio comes from a mixer), and configs itself as MIC, so the audio was clipping. Had to config again as LINE minutes before we go live !

    *Custom STREAMING profile using Adobe Flash Media Live Encoder got lost.

    * The CS 460 does no fire custom TC MACROS. Later we found that TC does not listen to CS 460, and that we cannot fire any macro from CS

    *CS 460 UTILITY BUS DELEGATE does nothing, buttons not even lit. Fortunately, today we did not have to play video in an external projector (we use AUX OUT for that)

    *Soundcard, and video ouputs Dv9 and DVI integrated in motherboard are disabled in live mode. Consecuences:
    -DISPLAY A and B are not present (see picture, Pg 84 AE2 sep-11, 2017 edition). In AE2 I usually sent program clean (MIX1) to a monitor plugged in DISPLAY A.
    -In my previous config, I have plug a mini stereo speakers to the motherboard audio output so I could listen (not just view) recorded clips when I go to Windows mode. Moreover, with this setup, along with custom macros (inspired by Kanep TCScheduler. Thanks, Kanep) we were able to set voice alerts and to fire macros at scheduled time before we go live. This trick do not works anymore

    *EXPORT folder and custom setup lost

    *Cannot control PTZ cameras (SONY, ip) with CS460 joystick

    *Some nice utilities (Datalink Titler) found on Kanep's site (http://kanelp7.wixsite.com/kanesworld, thanks again, Kanep) have stop working,

    This is what I found today. We did the event and nobody noticed anything, but we were really busy trying to fix all above (lack of macros and PTZ control was a nightmare, of course). I really like all of this could be fixed sometime in AE3, but for the moment I guess we will come back to AE2 edition.

    Regards,
    Manuel
    Sevilla, SPAINClick image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Mike A. Charlie; 02-11-2019 at 09:43 AM.

  2. #2
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike A. Charlie View Post
    ... using the same button for streaming/encoding has two big issues: first, I can't config two different setups (quality, Codec...) separately for each job (because there's only one stream, instead of two, as the TC1
    Someone brought this up a little while ago, and it's a good point. So we've decided to enable the second encoder for all models in an update due as soon as later today. Hope that helps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike A. Charlie View Post
    ... second, if I use both (with the same setup) I can not check if I'm serving the stream right or not.
    I'm not clear on what your meaning is on this point, sorry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike A. Charlie View Post
    The CS 460 does no fire custom TC MACROS. Later we found that TC does not listen to CS 460, and that we cannot fire any macro from CS
    As mentioned in the "What's New" doc, many CS buttons and workflow features have been revamped to match the new software. I just tested this here with a 410 and 450CS, and macros worked as documented. I'm not sure why that wasn't true for you...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike A. Charlie View Post
    -DISPLAY A and B are not present (see picture, Pg 84 AE2 sep-11, 2017 edition).
    This is true, and documentation has been updated to reflect this change, sorry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike A. Charlie View Post
    -In my previous config, I have plug a mini stereo speakers to the motherboard audio output so I could listen (not just view) recorded clips when I go to Windows mode.
    This is rather similar to the second encoder matter mentioned previously. As of the next release, your system sound card (and any other similar devices detected, such as a USB audio card) will show up as a "Supplemental Audio device) option in the Master and Aux 1 outputs. You should have no difficulty replicating your former workflow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike A. Charlie View Post
    Cannot control PTZ cameras (SONY, ip) with CS460 joystick
    If this same camera was working correctly with AE2, and you are delegating it to the joystick correctly using the modified CS layout per the manual, please submit a bug report.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike A. Charlie View Post
    Some nice utilities (Datalink Titler) found on Kanep's site (http://kanelp7.wixsite.com/kanesworld, thanks again, Kanep) have stop working
    I believe Kane has updated all of his apps to work with AE3. There's a thread on this somewhere.
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    Regards, Steve
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    Thank you for your quick answer

    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    Someone brought this up a little while ago, and it's a good point. So we've decided to enable the second encoder for all models in an update due as soon as later today. Hope that helps.

    To get enabled the second encoder are good news

    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    I'm not clear on what your meaning is on this point, sorry.
    I'll try to explain: In AE2, when you press the STREAM button it starts to streaming and show the elapsed time. If the streaming server were down, or there is any other problem, the time stops. So the clock helps me as an indicator that the TC is sending the stream and the server is getting it. If I stream and also serv file, then I can not know if the streaming process is Ok just by looking the clock

    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    As mentioned in the "What's New" doc, many CS buttons and workflow features have been revamped to match the new software. I just tested this here with a 410 and 450CS, and macros worked as documented. I'm not sure why that wasn't true for you...
    I'm not sure how should I remap my 460 CS, to get the TC to listen when i press MACRO + any KEY in the CS. I will read the manual again, for sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    This is true, and documentation has been updated to reflect this change, sorry.
    So those output are lost forever, isn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    This is rather similar to the second encoder matter mentioned previously. As of the next release, your system sound card (and any other similar devices detected, such as a USB audio card) will show up as a "Supplemental Audio device) option in the Master and Aux 1 outputs. You should have no difficulty replicating your former workflow.
    That sounds good. It is a pity do not happens the same with video output

    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    If this same camera was working correctly with AE2, and you are delegating it to the joystick correctly using the modified CS layout per the manual, please submit a bug report.
    Not sure how to get that. The cameras (3) are the same. My CS 460 does not appears at the Control Surfaces mapping option. What should I do?

    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    I believe Kane has updated all of his apps to work with AE3. There's a thread on this somewhere.
    I will look for it. No updates in his website

    No news on "CS 460 UTILITY BUS DELEGATE does nothing, buttons not even lit"? This function at the CS460 is critics for usThanks for all

    Thanks for all
    Manuel

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike A. Charlie View Post
    I'll try to explain: In AE2, when you press the STREAM button it starts to streaming and show the elapsed time. If the streaming server were down, or there is any other problem, the time stops. So the clock helps me as an indicator that the TC is sending the stream and the server is getting it. If I stream and also serv file, then I can not know if the streaming process is Ok just by looking the clock
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike A. Charlie View Post
    I'm not sure how should I remap my 460 CS, to get the TC to listen when i press MACRO + any KEY in the CS.
    Remapping should not be required. I didn't change anything, and it worked as documented.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike A. Charlie View Post
    So those output are lost forever, isn't?
    Yes. You have to adapt an NDI or SDI output to replace them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike A. Charlie View Post
    The cameras (3) are the same. My CS 460 does not appears at the Control Surfaces mapping option. What should I do?
    This has nothing to do with you remapping anything. The method used to delegate the joystick to a camera has changed, as described in the manual. You've also got a "Follow Preview" option to handle this now that you did not have before. (Just a head's up, it's going to change again - being expanded, that is - in a while).

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike A. Charlie View Post
    No news on "CS 460 UTILITY BUS DELEGATE does nothing, buttons not even lit"?
    The UTIL bus buttons delegate have been re-purposed, as described in the manual (specifically, in this case, in Section 21.3.3 and thereabouts.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    Yes. You have to adapt an NDI or SDI output to replace them.
    Oh... I did that way this morning

    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    This has nothing to do with you remapping anything. The method used to delegate the joystick to a camera has changed, as described in the manual. You've also got a "Follow Preview" option to handle this now that you did not have before. (Just a head's up, it's going to change again - being expanded, that is - in a while).
    That's wath I thought. But the case is that the manual does not describe how to delegate the joystick to cameras for my 460 CS. There's no button PTZ on it. I selected the camera with CTRL+ ME DELEGATE, recall presets with CTRL + LIVESET and pan, tilt and zoom with SHIFT + JOYSTICK


    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    The UTIL bus buttons delegate have been re-purposed, as described in the manual (specifically, in this case, in Section 21.3.3 and thereabouts.)
    Sorry, Section 21.3.3 refers to 450 CS. Mine is 460 CS

    Manuel

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike A. Charlie View Post
    But the case is that the manual does not describe how to delegate the joystick to cameras for my 460 CS.
    Sure it does. Read the sub-heading PTZ OPERATIONS in Section 21.3.6.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike A. Charlie View Post
    Sorry, Section 21.3.3 refers to 450 CS. Mine is 460 CS
    No difference.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    Sure it does. Read the sub-heading PTZ OPERATIONS in Section 21.3.6.

    No difference.
    Ok. Today I've found that these buttons in the CS 450Click image for larger version. 

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    Not so clear at first sight

    Thank you, Steve

    Manuel

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    Hi Manuel,

    Maybe you can check something quickly when you have a moment? I have a customer with 410 and CS with AE3, and she says that when trying to position the A and B layers of Virtual Set using CS controls, the controls for A and B are flipped/swapped. Mouse controls work fine, just CS is acting strange. Wondering if just her system or larger issue?

    Thanks!

    Jeff
    Jeff Pulera
    Streaming Broadcast Solutions - Newtek Elite

    TriCasters: Mini with AE, TC1
    Camera: Sony PMW-X70 4K
    Controllers: All variety of XKeys
    PTZ: Newtek NDIHX-PTZ1

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike A. Charlie View Post
    Not so clear at first sight
    Understood, sorry - but glad you have it figured out now!
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike A. Charlie View Post
    *Some nice utilities (Datalink Titler) found on Kanep's site (http://kanelp7.wixsite.com/kanesworld, thanks again, Kanep) have stop working,
    I have updated all of my apps to work on AE3. The previous installer often would get confused on which directory to put files, I've updated the installer to correctly locate the directory on AE3 systems. I've also tested all apps against AE3 for compatibility and made changes if needed (only one of my apps needed fixing to make it compatible).

    You can download the new app here. http://bit.ly/kanesworld
    Last edited by kanep; 02-12-2019 at 07:39 PM.
    Kane Peterson
    Key Accounts Sales Engineer
    NewTek, Inc.

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    Hi Jeff,

    We do not use Virtual Set in live production, but I will try to check that issue

    Regards,
    Manuel

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    Quote Originally Posted by kanep View Post
    I have updated all of my apps to work on AE3...

    You can download the new app here. http://bit.ly/kanesworld

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    Hi,

    Last News:
    I've managed to select and (try to) control the cameras with the CS460 (maybe I should stick labels with the new functions), but only one of the three cameras (cam1) moves smoothly and controlled. The other two cameras are out of control. With cam2 (or 3) selected, if I push the joystick to the left, it begins to pan slowly and, suddenly, it turns completely to the left until the maximum angle. If I push to the right, it does nothing at first. Seconds later, it turns right quickly in the same way. When tilting, the same strange behaviour.
    If I select presets, they move as expected.
    All three cameras have the same setups and, before updating the TC, they worked right. BTW, I've done a simple test: interchange the ip directions for cam 1 and 2. Now cam2 works ok and cam1 becomes crazy
    Any tip?

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