Results 1 to 7 of 7

Thread: Tricaster 860: Video delay on DDR's

  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Den Haag, the Netherlands
    Posts
    5

    Tricaster 860: Video delay on DDR's

    Dear Newtek,

    We are using the 860 in our OBV with a seperate audio Van (since we have so many audio IO and intercom IFB's).
    From the start we are struggeling with delays; we are using an 160ms audio delay on all our individual mixer channels (to compensate the Tricaster 860 latency), EXCEPT for the DDR's we have to use 0ms delay (since DDR's are not going through a framesync). So far, so good...

    When we are feeding a PA on the Floor we run into problems; because we have ambiance mics on the floor - that are 160ms delayed (to be in sync with the camera's which are feeding the 860) - playing a DDR clip on the floor resolves in Echo's: DDR audio feeding Program on the mixer (0 ms) + Ambience mics on the floor picking up the DDR audio via the PA (160ms).

    In an earlier release "Video delay" was introduced on every input on the Tricaster (nice;-), EXCEPT for the DDR's: they cannot be video-delayed.

    If we would be able to add a video-latency of 160ms on the DDR's - we could use a generic audio delay of 160ms on the Program master of the audio mixer (feeding the embedder) so we wouldn't have all individual delays-per-channel AND thus we wouldn't have any more echo's coming from ambiance mics (PA on the floor). Problem fixed !
    To make things more complex we now have to do a -pre-delay- aux send on the audio mixer when we want to feed a specific channel to an in-ear/monitor: think of a host or an artist that wants to hear his/her mic (without delay obviously). Luckily our Midas Pro2 is capable of doing that (but many mixers out there are not!)

    Is that in any way possible ? I understand that the DDR's would then start with 4 frames freeze - but that would be just an minor issue to us (we could use a macro to switch the video DDR 4 frames later for instance).

    Previously I already asked for this feature at my local reseller: but they are just saying I can use all audio through the Tricaster which is absolutely impossible for us having sometimes 50 channels/mics or more (plus 8 intercom IFB's)...

    Hope that I made the issue clear enough... (sorry for the long thread), simply a video delay on the DDR's would solve many hurdles for us. In the past I know that BroadcastPix had this feature... !
    Newtek please help...

    Regards,
    Rutger Jochemsen
    Omroep West
    Den Haag

    Tricaster 860 AE
    Tricaster 410 AE
    VSE
    Livetext
    Last edited by jochemsenr; 01-28-2019 at 10:46 AM. Reason: added signature

  2. #2
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Racine
    Posts
    1,480
    Hi Rutger,

    I've read your post several times yesterday and again this morning and am still not really clear on where the echo becomes an issue. Is it when the external audio mixer output coming into TriCaster gets recorded in TriCaster, you hear the DDR twice with delay? Or actually through sound system in the venue?

    I have a few ideas but need to better understand the issue. I just sometimes have a difficult time comprehending what I read and that's my own issue in my head.

    Thanks

    Jeff
    Jeff Pulera
    Streaming Broadcast Solutions - Newtek Elite

    TriCasters: Mini with AE, TC1
    Camera: Sony PMW-X70 4K
    Controllers: All variety of XKeys
    PTZ: Newtek NDIHX-PTZ1

  3. #3
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Den Haag, the Netherlands
    Posts
    5
    Hi Jeff, I mean through sound system in the venue - that DDR sound is being picked up by our ambiance mics inside the venue (that are 160ms delayed) - which results in an echo in the program.

    If we disable the delay on the ambiance mics - other (camera) shots are out of sync.

    We would like to disable all the channel delays on the mixer - and only delay the program output with 160ms (going to the Tricaster and embedder). But we cannot do that now because the DDR's need 0ms delay (no framesync) - and all the other channels 160ms (all framesynced).

    Hope I made it a bit clearer ? Sorry, it's quite complex to explain properly...
    Regards,
    Rutger Jochemsen
    Omroep West
    Den Haag

    Tricaster 860 AE
    Tricaster 410 AE
    VSE
    Livetext

  4. #4
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Racine
    Posts
    1,480
    "which results in an echo in the program."

    Do you mean Program IN the TriCaster, as when recording? If so, why not just use FOLLOW VIDEO option in each Audio Input in TriCaster Audio Mixer to set up some automation? Input 1 (assuming from your external sound board) would only be LIVE when cameras are live, and if you are playing back a DDR then Input 1 would be MUTED so that DDR is not coming back into TriCaster from sound board (looped), is only being recording internally.

    Other ways to accomplish the same thing. Use Automation and macros to change mute/unmute audio channels as desired, all automatic.

    Thanks

    Jeff
    Jeff Pulera
    Streaming Broadcast Solutions - Newtek Elite

    TriCasters: Mini with AE, TC1
    Camera: Sony PMW-X70 4K
    Controllers: All variety of XKeys
    PTZ: Newtek NDIHX-PTZ1

  5. #5
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Den Haag, the Netherlands
    Posts
    5
    Hi Jeff, thanks again for your reply. If using the Tricaster to embed the audio for Program/TX it makes somewhat sense...

    The thing is we are using an seperate embedder for the Program/TX chain. The embedder is being fed from our Midas Audiomixer. This is for 2 reasons:
    1. If the Tricaster fails, we can continue switching using our Video router (audio continues aswell). And yes, I have had some occasions with a Tricaster freeze and/or audio failures in the past...
    2. In a Multicam situation automation doesn't work; when playing a DDR somtimes we want to hear ambiance sound to hear (and see) reactions from the audience, for instance. A technician still functions better than a computer (not that I'm against automation: we do our news with 1 operator).

    I just wish that the Tricaster is a bit more suitable for real multicam productions (with a seperate audio mixer that is)... for the rest I love the product - don't get me wrong... ;-)

    Regards, Rutger
    Regards,
    Rutger Jochemsen
    Omroep West
    Den Haag

    Tricaster 860 AE
    Tricaster 410 AE
    VSE
    Livetext

  6. #6
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Den Haag, the Netherlands
    Posts
    5
    To add to this: right now we solved the problem by outputting DD1 on Tricaster Output 3 - This output is an input of the Tricaster via NDI (Input9-Net1) - there we apply the video delay - to then use a generic audio delay on the mixer master feeding the embedder.
    To start and switch the DDR1 (on Net1 with a little delay) I made a Macro to simplify it a bit...

    Not ideal... but hey, it works...
    Still, video delay on the DDR's would make a lot of sense...
    Regards,
    Rutger Jochemsen
    Omroep West
    Den Haag

    Tricaster 860 AE
    Tricaster 410 AE
    VSE
    Livetext

  7. #7
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    208
    I'd also love a video delay on DDR's. Our audio is all mixed via an offboard digital console. TC feeds ONLY DDR's to the console via an aux where its mixed live. The console handles the mix, then the final mixdown is fed back to the TC via an input. The round trip introduces a delay to the audio and it would be great to slow down the video to match.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •