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Thread: Any improvements in VPR refreshment render speed in the latest 2018 builds?

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    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Any improvements in VPR refreshment render speed in the latest 2018 builds?

    Hi folks, I am not going in to final render speed and how that compared to 2015 final render speed.
    What I havenīt been happy with in 2018..early builds, is the VPR refreshment, especially with draft mode that doesnīt seem to be faster than the final mode.

    So do you guys experience any improvements?

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    Super Member Snosrap's Avatar
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    So you are saying that 2018 has seemed slower than 2018 in regards to VPR performance?

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    Curmudgeon in Training Ma3rk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    Hi folks, I am not going in to final render speed and how that compared to 2015 final render speed.
    What I havenīt been happy with in 2018..early builds, is the VPR refreshment, especially with draft mode that doesnīt seem to be faster than the final mode.

    So do you guys experience any improvements?
    I'd say so but its speed is dependant on what you have enabled in the render options & camera settings. Seemed before that many options were only at render time but can't say for sure. The default Cam settings are a bit whimpy too but fast.

    I find that I keep the Render props panel open on another monitor & toggle GI enable. I use Interpolated but leave it off until render as that really slows things down. Leaving Volumetrics enabled doesn't seem to have much of a time hit.
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    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snosrap View Post
    So you are saying that 2018 has seemed slower than 2018 in regards to VPR performance?
    No..you must have misunderstood what I ment, I have only tried 2018.01 and I havenīt even downloaded the other updates, so still on discovery mode for 2018.

    What I do percieve, is no significant refreshment speed when it comes to draft and final mode in VPR, in the case of 2015..draft mode was quite fast to iterate to a decent level for previews...if there is no difference at all in speed in draft and final VPR mode in 20018, then I wonder what use is it for....so strictly VPR refreshment questions and not final F9 render speeds.

    By the way..your reply "2018 Seemed slower than 2018" doesnīt make sense, you must have missed a build number right?

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    Curmudgeon in Training Ma3rk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    No..you must have misunderstood what I ment, I have only tried 2018.01 and I havenīt even downloaded the other updates, so still on discovery mode for 2018.

    What I do percieve, is no significant refreshment speed when it comes to draft and final mode in VPR, in the case of 2015..draft mode was quite fast to iterate to a decent level for previews...if there is no difference at all in speed in draft and final VPR mode in 20018, then I wonder what use is it for....so strictly VPR refreshment questions and not final F9 render speeds.

    By the way..your reply "2018 Seemed slower than 2018" doesnīt make sense, you must have missed a build number right?

    I noticed with some of your cloud posts you still w/ Discovery. Maybe we should get a GoFundMe going for ya.

    And I probably did misunderstand; That was Snosrap's reply you're referring to though I believe.

    I've 2018.0.7 and no, Draft is quite a bit quicker than Final. My point was that there are a lot more factors now affecting speed.
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    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ma3rk View Post
    I noticed with some of your cloud posts you still w/ Discovery. Maybe we should get a GoFundMe going for ya.

    And I probably did misunderstand; That was Snosrap's reply you're referring to though I believe.

    I've 2018.0.7 and no, Draft is quite a bit quicker than Final. My point was that there are a lot more factors now affecting speed.
    Yep I quoted Snostrap..didnīt give you any reply at all there.


    Not necessary with a GoFundMe campaign, Itīs just that the Lightwave team need to adress a few things in Lightwave with the new volumetrics..Apart from the speed issue when introduced the new path renderer, it needs some workflow stuff, and some appliance stuff...and a whole lot more in other areas, a GoFundMe Campaign wouldnīt be of much use for me just for the sake of saving money..If I am not comfortable with the software.
    Misunderstand me right as we say, some things when starting up with volumetrics and clouds is absolutely beautiful and we can get results quickly in comparison to other software, but at the same time the new volumetrics took some step back in other areas.

    Will see what will happen.
    A campaign fund may possibly work for one purpose foremost, that would be for me to create scene ready clouds that anyone could download and use though Image below..I did take notes on every null parameter and shading and lighting, though missing is more advanced multiple scattering in cloud lighting, things they need to improve on among other things, I should be able to recreate this image fully and exactly even though I do not have the scene.

    Thanks for the heads up on draft vs final in VPR.

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    Super Member Snosrap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    By the way..your reply "2018 Seemed slower than 2018" doesnīt make sense, you must have missed a build number right?
    My bad. I meant to ask if VPR 2018 seemed slower than VPR 2015 because I knew you were still using 2015.
    Last edited by Snosrap; 12-03-2018 at 03:30 PM.

  8. #8
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snosrap View Post
    My bad. I meant to ask if 2018 seemed slower than 2015 because I knew you were still using 2015.
    Initally I thought so, with 2015 and interpolated GI I felt it was way faster, but I havenīt done extensive comparison...itīs tricky when you have a ray setting of 1..refresh VPR slower than a ray setting of 16 in 2018, and sometimes it doesnīt take effect, I feel that 2015 refresment was a bit faster, though 2018 is a different beast bringing on more realistic GI, with a slight VPR slow down compared perhaps.

    There are areas that are more important, like TFD, which can not use the new volumetric PBR, unless saving to vdb and then use new volumtrics, that is however not acceptable for me.
    Apart from TFD not being able to work with the new volumetrics, it was darn slow with multiple scattering, which it has to calculated for each little tweak and taking a few seconds to do so...I could compare to free software that uses GPU and renders multiple scattering much faster.

    Hoping that jascha improves on that among other things, the simulation speed in TFD has always been impressing though..if I compare to other free software at high resolution sims.

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    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ma3rk View Post
    I've 2018.0.7 and no, Draft is quite a bit quicker than Final. My point was that there are a lot more factors now affecting speed.
    Keep in mind he's mostly focused on volumetrics -- are you saying you've seen significant differences between draft and non-draft VPR perf w.r.t. volumetrics?

    My experiences with volumetrics have been pretty similar to Prometheus' in terms of VPR Draft vs VPR Non-Draft performance -- they really do perform similarly, and given neither is "astoundingly fast" (IMO, anyway) that seems like a serious lost opportunity for VPR Draft mode. If you want examples, look at the 2018 example content, say the Volumetrics/Clouds scenes: The performance between VPR Draft and VPR Non-Draft is surprisingly similar in most cases, even in a couple cases where it seems like VPR Non-Draft should be significantly slower if really using more detailed settings than VPR Draft.
    Last edited by jwiede; 12-03-2018 at 04:23 PM.
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    In case of volumetrics, draft mode should really include ("Step Size"="Step Size" * 4 or 8).

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    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwiede View Post
    Keep in mind he's mostly focused on volumetrics -- are you saying you've seen significant differences between draft and non-draft VPR perf w.r.t. volumetrics?

    My experiences with volumetrics have been pretty similar to Prometheus' in terms of VPR Draft vs VPR Non-Draft performance -- they really do perform similarly, and given neither is "astoundingly fast" (IMO, anyway) that seems like a serious lost opportunity for VPR Draft mode. If you want examples, look at the 2018 example content, say the Volumetrics/Clouds scenes: The performance between VPR Draft and VPR Non-Draft is surprisingly similar in most cases, even in a couple cases where it seems like VPR Non-Draft should be significantly slower if really using more detailed settings than VPR Draft.
    That is pretty much it, I should have made that a bit more clear, even though volumetrics isnīt the only thing I use but you summed it up nicely.

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    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by next_n00b View Post
    In case of volumetrics, draft mode should really include ("Step Size"="Step Size" * 4 or 8).
    Even better, let users define what VPR Draft and Non-Draft settings mean in terms of render settings (by specially-named render presets or such).
    John W.
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    Almost newbie Cageman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwiede View Post
    Even better, let users define what VPR Draft and Non-Draft settings mean in terms of render settings (by specially-named render presets or such).
    This is a good idea!

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