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Thread: Mip Map Misery

  1. #1
    Curmudgeon in Training Ma3rk's Avatar
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    Mip Map Misery

    I've been working on a fairly large scene and have had the Enable Mipmapping option off. Not really sure why, but it was. Enabled it this evening and then VPR and the status line showed things churning away making mip maps. It seemed done but still no VPR display & then Layout crashes. Along with Windows Explorer. Tried several times; didn't always crash Explorer but Layout was having none of it.

    So, is there some way of knowing what's not getting along, or to generate mips in a controlled way, or ...?
    "Never be a cat in a cartoon. Never." Chief Wiggum

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ma3rk View Post
    I've been working on a fairly large scene and have had the Enable Mipmapping option off. Not really sure why, but it was. Enabled it this evening and then VPR and the status line showed things churning away making mip maps. It seemed done but still no VPR display & then Layout crashes. Along with Windows Explorer. Tried several times; didn't always crash Explorer but Layout was having none of it.

    So, is there some way of knowing what's not getting along, or to generate mips in a controlled way, or ...?
    Why don't you (as always) report bug to NewTek devs using Report Bug option...
    Apparently this option has not been made VPR-safe. Each option must disable VPR rendering, then do its job, then enable VPR. This ensures data are not changed, created, while real-time renderer is using them in the same time (because it causes crash). Do you remember FPrime? The all crashes were caused by such multi-threading conflicts (read/write from couple different threads, which have no idea what other threads are doing).

    I believe so mip-maps are generated when image is loaded to Layout.
    So, load your scene, no VPR! Then enable mip-maps for the all images. Save scene. Quit and restart Layout. Then turn on VPR.
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  3. #3
    Curmudgeon in Training Ma3rk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
    Why don't you (as always) report bug to NewTek devs using Report Bug option...
    Apparently this option has not been made VPR-safe. Each option must disable VPR rendering, then do its job, then enable VPR. This ensures data are not changed, created, while real-time renderer is using them in the same time (because it causes crash). Do you remember FPrime? The all crashes were caused by such multi-threading conflicts (read/write from couple different threads, which have no idea what other threads are doing).

    I believe so mip-maps are generated when image is loaded to Layout.
    So, load your scene, no VPR! Then enable mip-maps for the all images. Save scene. Quit and restart Layout. Then turn on VPR.
    Tried that. Still crashes.

    If the status line would indicate what it's building a mipmap for, I could probably track down what's not playing nicely. Disabled it for the 8K HDR but there are several hundred other images in the scene so obviously testing each is impractical.

    Part of the problem is not even knowing if this is in fact a bug. Tried to get more info on Mip maps from the Wiki, and ... forget it. Useless. BEEVEE - You reading this?

    I did find out that it's quite GPU dependent so suspect that's the main issue with my "antiquated' Quadro 4000.

    I'll try to get around to reporting this and just point them to this thread I guess.
    "Never be a cat in a cartoon. Never." Chief Wiggum

  4. #4
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    Maybe one of images is causing it - so try splitting scene to a few objects (half of scene in the first iteration), with few images.. save it.. Enable mip-mapping on them..
    If it's not crashing, use 2nd half, then split scene.. repeat.. (binary-search algorithm on quantity of objects)
    i.e. limit scene to the one object with the one image which is causing the issue.
    (if it's not caused by just out-of-memory etc.)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_search_algorithm
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  5. #5
    Curmudgeon in Training Ma3rk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
    Maybe one of images is causing it - so try splitting scene to a few objects (half of scene in the first iteration), with few images.. save it.. Enable mip-mapping on them..
    If it's not crashing, use 2nd half, then split scene.. repeat.. (binary-search algorithm on quantity of objects)
    i.e. limit scene to the one object with the one image which is causing the issue.
    (if it's not caused by just out-of-memory etc.)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_search_algorithm
    Ya, I could but frankly, not worth my time or effort. The feature should be designed with error trapping or some means of knowing what it's loading. At present it's just a meaningless message in the status area that it's done loading something.
    "Never be a cat in a cartoon. Never." Chief Wiggum

  6. #6
    Curmudgeon in Training Ma3rk's Avatar
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    Ah HA!

    Somewhere along the line, all of my scene images (174 listed), got their Use Mip Map setting enabled. So not only was the system crashing when enabling the setting in Render Settings, simply enabling VPR was crashing Layout as well. My poor aging system simple doesn't have the RAMs for using them but don't really need them at this point anyway. Will take care of that this coming Spring.

    So, didn't have to do a systematic dissection of the scene; just dropped back to what was working and using the ol' "W" key to bring up the memory stats. The last know working scene in a wireframe view had a bit over 10 Gb both free memory & pagefile. The culprit scene, a bit over 2 Gb each so when switching to VPR it starts then all goes white & then just goes away.

    So, selected all the images & collectively turn off the mip map setting. I enabled Use image cache too and everything is getting along once more. Can get back to adding instances again.
    "Never be a cat in a cartoon. Never." Chief Wiggum

  7. #7
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Still worth filing a bug, though, it's causing a crash -- and there's no such thing as an "excusable" crash.
    John W.
    LW2015.3UB/2018.0.5 on MacPro(12C/24T/10.13.6),32GB RAM, NV 1080ti

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