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Thread: Lightwave 2020 NEW GUI

  1. #1
    Architect/Designer johlanga's Avatar
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    Lightwave 2020 NEW GUI

    Hi,
    Here are a thread for my input on how Lightwave can use it's current GUI/workflow as a strong turning point for something fresh and NEW :)

    A picture of my current GUI setup in Modeler 11.6.3 as a teaser. More follows in next couple of weeks....
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	LW2020_GUI_01.png 
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    Last edited by johlanga; 10-11-2018 at 02:04 PM.

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    Registered User Rayek's Avatar
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    New being that you use alien hieroglyphics as an alternative to human readable text characters and words?
    Win10 64 - i7 920@3.6Ghz, p6t Deluxe v1, 48gb, Nvidia GTX 1080 8GB, Revodrive X2 240gb, e-mu 1820. Screens: 2 x Samsung s27a850ds 2560x1440, HP 1920x1200 in portrait mode

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    Carbon fibre dongle® 50one's Avatar
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    -==- and then <|> to [÷]

  4. #4
    Architect/Designer johlanga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rayek View Post
    New being that you use alien hieroglyphics as an alternative to human readable text characters and words?
    It's based on how you can use research on human cognition perception and enhance the current text based GUI with symbols, and at the same time preserve the feel of what makes LW unique.

    The pic. above are quite dens with new symbols. I have grown so used to them that i don't find them alien

    In the coming posts I'm going to be more principal and explain basic points......

  5. #5
    Registered User Rayek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johlanga View Post
    It's based on how you can use research on human cognition perception and enhance the current text based GUI with symbols, and at the same time preserve the feel of what makes LW unique.

    The pic. above are quite dens with new symbols. I have grown so used to them that i don't find them alien

    In the coming posts I'm going to be more principal and explain basic points......
    That is called progressive reduction - as an expert, you've grown used to the symbols, and they work to YOUR level of expertise. Not to mention that YOU have invented them, of course.

    The problem is that symbols and icons just don't vibe well with advanced concepts, and even very simple one-to-one signifiers such as a menu icon may not be understood by a relatively large percentage of people.

    Remember Truespace? A veritable forest of icons, and it was extremely messy and cognitive overload was the result.

    Icons without labels just don't work well in a conceptually complex environment, and the more are added, the worse it gets. Even an application such as Cinema4D limits the use of them to a single row at the top of the screen. Ask the average user whether they understand an icon for "bevel" better than the word "bevel" itself.

    Worse, if the user switches a lot between 3d applications, an entirely new semiotic world just gets in the way of doing the job.

    And your attempt by using existing character symbols to create new symbols is more akin to shaping a new symbolic language using existing parts - not being quite icons. A fun personal exercise, of course. The usefulness for other users remains very doubtful (which is an understatement).

    But don't let me stop you, and have fun!
    Win10 64 - i7 920@3.6Ghz, p6t Deluxe v1, 48gb, Nvidia GTX 1080 8GB, Revodrive X2 240gb, e-mu 1820. Screens: 2 x Samsung s27a850ds 2560x1440, HP 1920x1200 in portrait mode

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    Dreamer Ztreem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johlanga View Post
    Hi,
    Here are a thread for my input on how Lightwave can use it's current GUI/workflow as a strong turning point for something fresh and NEW

    A picture of my current GUI setup in Modeler 11.6.3 as a teaser. More follows in next couple of weeks....
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	LW2020_GUI_01.png 
Views:	779 
Size:	329.6 KB 
ID:	143082
    Sorry, but fresh & new is not what comes to mind when I see your screenshot.
    Last edited by Ztreem; 10-11-2018 at 03:12 PM.

  7. #7
    ack ack Markc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johlanga View Post
    Hi,
    Here are a thread for my input on how Lightwave can use it's current GUI/workflow as a strong turning point for something fresh and NEW

    A picture of my current GUI setup in Modeler 11.6.3 as a teaser. More follows in next couple of weeks....
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	LW2020_GUI_01.png 
Views:	779 
Size:	329.6 KB 
ID:	143082
    Why................
    What is the point of changing every button to something nobody understands.
    Mac Pro (2010) OSX 10.13 RX580 Pulse LW2018

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    What I like about Lightwave 3D's interface. It does what it says (!) on the tin.

    Regards,

    Kyle.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Though the bit of colour here and there in the idea about isn't a bad idea.

    I do like the new 'dark grey' look over the silver/grey interface which was ok, though.

    I find LW3D's interface simple and elegance.

    Regards,

    Kyle.

  9. #9
    Registered User jbrookes's Avatar
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    Well said. I totally agree.

    While interesting, the screen-shot doesn't really show anything that (IMHO) improves the interface.

    Personally, all I think Modeler needs is a few tool enhancements to make it easier to do off-axis detailing, a way to round off edges of complex objects without polygon errors, easier UVs, and a really good real-time 3D paint system. Otherwise, I really like it as it is.
    Favorite Waves: LW3.5, 5.6c, 7.5, 8.5, 9.6, 2015.

  10. #10
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    It´s interesting, but it really fails to work for me, and I would give an advanced guess that it fails for most people as well as being hard to read.
    It looks like Icon/ symbol based approach, not Icon/image based approach..where the latter probably could describe the process better, where the former describes it simpler in it´s symbol form, but not necessarely easier to understand.

    I am afraid I would take most Houdini Icons together with text Anytime over this interface.

    Apart from the difficult to distinguish Icon symbol buttons, you would need to reduce amount of various button colors
    , to me it is frankly a mess with bad color contrast in some cases where white text lies on top of a very white grey button, and Dark violet text on light violet buttons..to me this is very bad in terms of UI colors.

    In my opinion, if the UI should be enhanced in color and icons, they need to make it happen to change in realtime, and for icons, there are the creation of objects that foremost is the easiest to describe with Icons, cube, sphere, toroid, cone etc...most of us wouldn´t have to second guess those tools if represented with good Icons, and it would be faster to recognize in a toolset.

    Though I would like to have a way of entering shelves..like in houdini with these tools.
    Now I do not want the developers to go bunkers and make it a goal to try to add icons for every tab/ button, start softly with the above should be enough.

  11. #11
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    sorry, no. if it was like that pic i’d never use it. what lightwave needs is tool enhancement and consolidation.
    some ui work but more like docking panels and standardized ui elements, data fields etc. multi select and editing, industry standard nav shortcuts and gizmos, with options to customize to the individuals needs and desires.
    So, you can have it look exactly as you picture, for your preference and everyone else can have it their way.
    everyone’s happy, with the default that of industry standards. undo, of course too

    whether that happens, whether they listen, i don’t know.
    Last edited by gar26lw; 10-13-2018 at 10:10 AM.

  12. #12
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gar26lw View Post
    sorry, no. if it was like that pic i’d never use it. what lightwave needs is tool enhancement and consolidation.
    some ui work but more like docking panels and standardized ui elements, data fields etc. multi select and editing, industry standard nav shortcuts and gizmos, with options to customize to the individuals needs and desires.
    So, you can have it look exactly as you picture, for your preference and everyone else can have it their way.
    everyone’s happy, with the default that of industry standards. undo, of course too

    whether that happens, whether they listen, i don’t know.
    The problem with that symbol/icon based interface is that you would have to engage a lot more of your brain..trying to interpreting what it would do...
    more so ever than a what you would have to interprete with a good Icon image depicting a geometrical process.

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    Registered User ianr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    The problem with that symbol/icon based interface is that you would have to engage a lot more of your brain..trying to interpreting what it would do...
    more so ever than a what you would have to interprete with a good Icon image depicting a geometrical process.
    No Bannanaaaa! ATM

  14. #14
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianr View Post
    No Bannanaaaa! ATM
    Just don´t want that comment to be hanging there as an unknown fruit, clarification of what kind it is may be needed here
    I am sure some folks understand that comment
    I can only guess though..that it is a no to something(or agreeing?)... but something in this case is very unspecific.

  15. #15
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    For polishing the UI slightly...I would like to have it more like blenders menu where you create, modify etc...meaning that a text label for a category...Isn´t per itself a clickable function..ergo it shouldn´t be designed within a button frame, as all the lightwave categories are designed, it should simply be text directly in the menu, and under that we can have the tool commands as buttons..just like blender does it, this also helps distinguish the text from each other in releation to wether or not it is clickable or not..and it´s function of course.

    In lightwave there is only a color difference between the category Label and the underlying tool commands, It simply looks bad, today we also have it divided with extra space dividers, which only makes the UI looks more cluttered/divided..instead of just removing it..making the category labels work on the main menus directly with controllable color etc.

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