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Thread: LW2019 - Layout viewport performance with active modifiers fixed - Thank you NewTek!

  1. #16
    I am very curious what Modeler survey brings, and when.

  2. #17
    Not so newbie member lardbros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwiede View Post
    If accurate, that'd be a strong indication Newtek has already "switched over" from working on LW2018 updates onto the next paid version upgrade.

    Considering how few actual issue fixes and improvements came in those "six updates" (Newtek even acknowledged they were tiny with the .0.x designations), and the current state of LW2018 in terms of broken/incomplete functionality, Newtek declaring LW2018 "done" would be a horrible mistake, IMO. Of couse, it wouldn't be their first such mistake, nor even the least bit surprising that they'd make such a mistake again so soon after the last.

    Oh well, I'm sure the Faithful will be along to circle the wagons and declare how wonderful LW2018 has been for everyone. Good luck with that.
    Is there ANY way we can turn you off? Or maybe revert your negative attitude into the inverse?
    Why use LightWave if all you can say is something negative?

    2018 has had 6 mini updates, more than any other software developer normally releases, and more stable than most other software I use.

    For instance, 3dsMax 2018 had 4 mini updates, all of which have bugs that mean you can't use the tool. Weld for example, when done on an Edit Poly modifier, will crash immediately! Yeah, pretty terrible... LightWave has many less developers, much less capital behind it, yet at least I can still weld in LW without a crash.
    Last edited by lardbros; 10-11-2018 at 07:48 AM.
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  3. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by jwiede View Post
    If accurate, that'd be a strong indication Newtek has already "switched over" from working on LW2018 updates onto the next paid version upgrade.

    Considering how few actual issue fixes and improvements came in those "six updates" (Newtek even acknowledged they were tiny with the .0.x designations), and the current state of LW2018 in terms of broken/incomplete functionality, Newtek declaring LW2018 "done" would be a horrible mistake, IMO. Of couse, it wouldn't be their first such mistake, nor even the least bit surprising that they'd make such a mistake again so soon after the last.

    Oh well, I'm sure the Faithful will be along to circle the wagons and declare how wonderful LW2018 has been for everyone. Good luck with that.
    I think it all comes down to how a user uses the product and whether it works consistently and meets the need of that said user. For instance in our shop we never animate, so any issues with the animation side of things go completely unnoticed. So for the part of LW that we use there is very little to complain about as to things not working. Now as far as things not being implemented very well - that is another story. Yes, there are tons of features that are needed and UI issues galore, but as far as stuff plain not working we haven't run into anything really with the exception of the hang-up issue and the load from scene issue with FiberFX objects. We can talk about the piss poor Modeler performance all day long but that is not a bug, it's a poor design issue. IMO LW is pretty solid and to be honest we were probably going to switch to Modo at one time, but in our evaluations we couldn't keep it running for more than 30 minutes, so we just stayed with the tried and true and the new PBR rendering has solidified that decision. I just wish it were faster (again not a bug. ).
    Tim Parsons
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  4. #19
    Super Member Paul_Boland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Parsons View Post
    ...and the load from scene issue with FiberFX objects.
    I have been reporting this issue since 2018.0.2 and now we are on 2018.0.6 and it's still not fixed and one of my projects is dead in the water because of it. With this potential news of Lightwave 2019 on the way, if this turns out to be true, and it's a paid update, and the FiberFX bug in 2018 is not fixed before hand, then that's me done with Lightwave. I won't give money to Newtek for broken software any more. It's bad enough that for OVER A DECADE I've been asking them to fix the Sliders controls since Lightwave 8 and they still aren't fixed!!! This FiberFX bug has just peed me off!! But if Newtek don't fix it in 2018 and then ask for money for a new 2019 release, they will lose me as a customer.
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  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_Boland View Post
    Sliders controls since Lightwave 8 and they still aren't fixed!!! This FiberFX bug has just peed me off!! But if Newtek don't fix it in 2018 and then ask for money for a new 2019 release, they will lose me as a customer.
    Are the sliders broken or just not working very good? I don't use them. I really don't do any hair either, but I was using it for some fiber strands on a vase that was wound with rope and discovered this fault. I also tried FiberFX on some carpet and it works really good but this load from scene issue has me reverting back to instances. So it's not a deal breaker for me, but it should be addressed. With Metamorphic being added to 2019, some new shaders added to the mix and whatever else NT can pull off in such a short timeline it should be worth the $300 but not much more. I understand the need for some regular income to keep things moving, but they need to show value too. Maybe the people that passed on 2018 will jump in with 2019 and those that adopted 2018 will wait for 2020.
    Tim Parsons
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    Sauder Woodworking Co.

    http://www.sauder.com

  6. #21
    Lightwave junkie stevecullum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lardbros View Post
    Is there ANY way we can turn you off? Or maybe revert your negative attitude into the inverse?
    Why use LightWave if all you can say is something negative?

    2018 has had 6 mini updates, more than any other software developer normally releases, and more stable than most other software I use.

    For instance, 3dsMax 2018 had 4 mini updates, all of which have bugs that mean you can't use the tool. Weld for example, when done on an Edit Poly modifier, will crash immediately! Yeah, pretty terrible... LightWave has many less developers, much less capital behind it, yet at least I can still weld in LW without a crash.
    I don't think it matters which 3D software you use, there is always going to be bugs and issues, due to the complexity of them. For the most part, there is usually some kind of work-around, even for obscure ones. Like in 2018.6, the motion mixer bone re-mapper doesn't work, but you can work around that issue by editing the hmot file directly changing out the bone names. Not great, but better than nothing.

    As for 3dsmax, from what you are describing sounds like a total pain - but I suspect there is some kind of workaround...wait there is! Just use Modeler instead
    i7 X3930/32GB/Quadro 4000

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_Boland View Post
    I have been reporting this issue since 2018.0.2 and now we are on 2018.0.6 and it's still not fixed and one of my projects is dead in the water because of it. With this potential news of Lightwave 2019 on the way, if this turns out to be true, and it's a paid update, and the FiberFX bug in 2018 is not fixed before hand, then that's me done with Lightwave. I won't give money to Newtek for broken software any more. It's bad enough that for OVER A DECADE I've been asking them to fix the Sliders controls since Lightwave 8 and they still aren't fixed!!! This FiberFX bug has just peed me off!! But if Newtek don't fix it in 2018 and then ask for money for a new 2019 release, they will lose me as a customer.
    yeah, same.

  8. #23
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    The feedback in the survey focused heavily on Modeller so it seems an obvious area for development.

    Kyle.

  9. #24
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    I'm hoping for another 'kick-***' release. (Which I thought 2018 was...) But the latter was sometime after 2015. What can they achieve in a year? (If '2019' is a yearly release?)

    Optimisations in the renderer might be nice (though it's fairly fast compared to what I was used to 1997, heh...) GPU renderer combined with the CPU would be mighty fine. Obviously, modelling improvements. 4k monitor readiness?

    ...and I wonder, if anything was held back from 2018 which just was too big to be done in time for its release.

    The 'Hub' seems a bit wobbly to me. It fusses periodically and it's not like I'm shifting big polygon models or scenes with massive textures. That said, I haven't installed 2018.6 yet (I like to wait for several patches before install more software so I don't upset things on my system.)

    Running on a 2014 iMac, El Capitan, only 8 gigs of ram...Nvidia GPU 680MX, i7 cpu. Not bad. Nice big 27 inch screen. But miles behind the gpu rendering monsters and AMD insanity multicores of today's machines.

    Kyle.

  10. #25
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    Nice to see they are fixing stuff and are moving forward with a 2019 release.

    LW3D flies the flag for value under £1000 and a sound upgrade price (£250 from LW3D 9.x to 2018, for me? A no-brainer.) with NO subscription.

    I'm rooting for Newtek and LW3D!

    Kyle.

  11. #26
    Super Member Paul_Boland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Parsons View Post
    Are the sliders broken or just not working very good?
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Lightwave Sliders Mess 2018.jpg 
Views:	87 
Size:	900.4 KB 
ID:	143080

    I've been reporting on this since Lightwave 8. I've had big forum threads covering it, submitted it multiple times as a bug report which have been acknowledged, and even talked directly with Newtek staff about it who admit it's not working as it should, and yet over ten years later it's still broken n:!! The FiberFX issue in 2018 is the straw that nearly broke the camel's back for me. If the FiberFX bug is not fixed in 2018 and 2019 is released as a paid upgrade, I will walk away from Newtek and Lightwave. I'm tired paying for broken software from Newtek that the company doesn't seem to care about fixing!!
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  12. #27
    Not so newbie member lardbros's Avatar
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    Paul, those notches are to skip to next and previous keyframes I thought.

    What's the Fiber FX bug that isn't fixed?
    LairdSquared | 3D Design & Animation

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  13. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_Boland View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Lightwave Sliders Mess 2018.jpg 
Views:	87 
Size:	900.4 KB 
ID:	143080

    I've been reporting on this since Lightwave 8. I've had big forum threads covering it, submitted it multiple times as a bug report which have been acknowledged, and even talked directly with Newtek staff about it who admit it's not working as it should, and yet over ten years later it's still broken n:!! The FiberFX issue in 2018 is the straw that nearly broke the camel's back for me. If the FiberFX bug is not fixed in 2018 and 2019 is released as a paid upgrade, I will walk away from Newtek and Lightwave. I'm tired paying for broken software from Newtek that the company doesn't seem to care about fixing!!
    Quote Originally Posted by lardbros View Post
    Paul, those notches are to skip to next and previous keyframes I thought.

    What's the Fiber FX bug that isn't fixed?
    lardbros - Instant crash when using load from scene. So yeah not very useful.

    But....... with 2018.0.6 load from scene with a FiberFX object no longer crashes LW, so that's a plus, but none of the styling remains. It may be a situation where NT doesn't know about the specifics. I know when I fogged it I was fogging the instant crash so that is what I told them. So it looks like that got fixed! So from my standpoint they fixed it but they didn't go the extra mile to make sure styling come over etc.. Maybe another bug report is in order. Over time I have discovered that you have to be completely explicit with bug reports and have ready made content in it's most simplest form or they won't be able to catch the issue.
    Tim Parsons
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    Sauder Woodworking Co.

    http://www.sauder.com

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_Boland View Post
    I have been reporting this issue since 2018.0.2 and now we are on 2018.0.6 and it's still not fixed and one of my projects is dead in the water because of it. With this potential news of Lightwave 2019 on the way, if this turns out to be true, and it's a paid update, and the FiberFX bug in 2018 is not fixed before hand, then that's me done with Lightwave. I won't give money to Newtek for broken software any more. It's bad enough that for OVER A DECADE I've been asking them to fix the Sliders controls since Lightwave 8 and they still aren't fixed!!! This FiberFX bug has just peed me off!! But if Newtek don't fix it in 2018 and then ask for money for a new 2019 release, they will lose me as a customer.
    I am still trying to figure your issue out.

    I have tried many tests hoping to replicate your crash issue, but so far I haven't succeeded.

    Not to say that Layout didn't bang on my CPUs like they were hailstones on a tin roof, but I haven't actually gotten my system to crash.

    In my last test, I opened a Layout scene with a panda head that I had applied FiberFX to.

    Then I cloned the panda head, and loaded my FiberFX from a saved ffs file, and saved that as a new scene.

    Cleared Layout. Loaded the original panda head scene. Loaded the two panda heads from the new scene into the original. Checked and applied my FiberFX ffs files to the parts.

    Lots of CPU stalling in between fiber applications, but Layout didn't crash.

    Rendered. Everything was fine. The original head had all of the fur; on the imported heads, I only loaded specific parts. On one, I loaded snout and ear fur, and on the other I loaded eye socket and head fur.

    No crashes.

    Weird.

    What am I doing differently than you that is keeping my system from crashing? Perhaps I haven't understood your issue correctly.

    EDIT: Ahh, it looks like they fixed the issue in your specific instance.

    Not sure why it wasn't fixed for you until 2018.06... I am still using 2018.0 and as I said, I haven't had a crash when loading a FiberFX object (or multiple objects) from one scene into another scene.

    For the styling, I normally save an FFS file for all of the areas on the model that I applied FiberFX to. Typically, when I take a model I had previously applied FiberFX to into Layout (like the panda heads) they don't have any fibers on them. I activate them, and then load the FFS files that I saved that had the styling information in it.
    Last edited by RPSchmidt; 10-11-2018 at 01:46 PM.

  15. #30
    Super Member Paul_Boland's Avatar
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    Create a Cube in Modeller, save the object.
    Create a Sphere in Modeller, save the object.
    Load the Cube into Layout and apply FiberFX to it. Save the scene and object.
    New scene in Layout, load the Sphere and apply FiberFX. Save the scene and object.
    New Scene in Layout. Load From Scene the cube. Turn on VPR and you'll see it fine with all the FiberFX stuff on it.
    Load From Scene the sphere. CRASH!
    If you have VPR turned off and load the two objects they will appear fine in the scene without the FiberFX applied to them but then pressed F9 to render, CRASH!!

    Newtek tech support as acknowledged this is a bug and has been around since 2018.0.2, still present in 2018.0.6. Works fine in Lightwave 2015.

    As for Sliders, I just looked and those arrow heads are no longer mentioned in the documentation (I'm guessing since they don't work they want to draw attention to them) but they are supposed to nudge the slider control value 0.01 left or right upon clicking, but they don't do anything.
    KnightTrek Productions
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