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Thread: Don't upgrade to MacOS Mojave yet! Update: Hotfix Released

  1. #16
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Chuck, can you clarify which revisions of 2018 are compatible with the hotfix?
    John W.
    LW2015.3UB/2018.0.7 on MacPro(12C/24T/10.13.6),32GB RAM, NV 980ti

  2. #17
    NewTek Social Media Chuck's Avatar
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    The team only worked with 2018.0.6. No testing was done with any other revisions.
    Chuck Baker
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  3. #18
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
    The team only worked with 2018.0.6. No testing was done with any other revisions.
    Okay, good to know, thanks!
    John W.
    LW2015.3UB/2018.0.7 on MacPro(12C/24T/10.13.6),32GB RAM, NV 980ti

  4. #19
    Any chance of a fix being applied to LW2015. Even if I beg? Or could the fix come form the OS side at some point?

  5. #20
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    Hi Chuck or other LW people,

    Same question from me: will this be fixed in LW 2015.3? I purchased this software only 2 years ago so I do expect this to be supported a bit longer - and at the moment the software is almost unusable for me, or better said: it's technically usable but slows me down so much due to unrecognisable UI icons that it becomes nearly unusable in reality.

  6. #21
    NewTek Social Media Chuck's Avatar
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    Historically, we have in almost all cases maintained compatibility with new OS versions only in the current LightWave release series. Development is not planning to deviate from that in this case.
    Chuck Baker
    Senior Manager of Communications
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    Software Developer's Dilemma: The better the new feature, the more feature requests it will generate. - C. Baker
    Please note that any statements regarding future product development are forward looking and subject to change without notice.

  7. #22
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    That's really a pity. Especially since this looks like something that would not be very hard to fix... Even moreso since you already know from the 2018 patch where the problem originates.

    Sooo... Thanks a lot NewTek. As a 15 year-long LightWave 3D user, I have never come closer to switching to Cinema...

    Added in edit: given the drastic changes in the render engine and corresponding lack of backwards compatibility in rendering result this stance is even less respectful of paying customers. I am now almost forced to work on two machines... VectorWorks and other software requires me to work on Mojave, and LightWave keeps me from working on Mojave, unless I upgrade to a new version that breaks the compatibility in rendering result for a project I've been working on for a couple of years now...
    Last edited by donlimpio; 12-06-2018 at 04:59 AM.

  8. #23
    Founding member raymondtrace's Avatar
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    Two excellent points...
    *Newtek knows where the problem exists and how to fix it
    *Even with the advent of 2018, many users still depend on 2015's rendering for existing projects

    However, moving to another app would still require an expense greater than a LW2018 upgrade and would still require major effort to update or recreate scenes/rigging and objects/surfacing in your projects.

    If your software is dual-platform licensed, like Lightwave, your best option may be to install Windows on your Mac.
    LW7.5D, 2015, 2018, 2019 running portably on a USB drive on an Amiga 2500 running Wine.

  9. #24
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    Thanks Raymond, for your reaction. Your thoughts on moving to another app are very true in general, but our studio situation is a bit different. We already use LightWave, Cinema4D and 3DS Max here. Plus Sketchup, Rhino, SolidWorks and VectorWorks for modeling and drawing plans. Rendering is equally diverse with V-Ray, Kray, Octane, Podium, KeyShot and all the proprietary render engines like LightWave's. People come, people go, the old software licenses generally stay, with the exception of MAX (for which we pay the amount of users we have each year as a subscription).

    Truth be told: I am the old dog in the house that keeps our 3 LW licenses reasonably alive, in the face of stiff competition from all the 3D packages the young guys introduce here. One of the reasons for that is my loyalty to LightWave for the sake of nostalgia, and the passion and cameraderie of the old bunch of guys. I remember Brad Peebler becoming LightWave evangelist, and when Project Messiah was a hot new thing. You get the idea...

    Responses like this from NewTek make me question my loyalty very much, to be honest. Switching package is no big cost for me, financially nor educationally. If I have to start installing two partitions on my Mac to run an old version of the O.S. just because NT doesn't feel like making the effort to tackle a small bug, then not switching almost becomes more of an effort than switching...

  10. #25
    NewTek Social Media Chuck's Avatar
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    Things can seem simple that just are not, and going back to a development line that was closed out years ago to retrofix it for an OS released this year is just not as easy as many would like to think. And given the differences in the code base it may not be a simple single-file fix, and may not be quite the same fix.

    There also gets to be a question of how many retro versions to fix if you do so much as one. I've talked to folks this past year still using v9.6 and earlier outraged that we don't still do fixes for their version, and saying just the same kind of things about our lack of care for loyal customers when their last actual investment in LightWave ranged from 10 to as much as 20 years ago. No, I am not kidding nor exaggerating.

    That noted, the feedback on the topic will be brought to the attention of management for their consideration.
    Chuck Baker
    Senior Manager of Communications
    NewTek, Inc.
    NewTek.com
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    Software Developer's Dilemma: The better the new feature, the more feature requests it will generate. - C. Baker
    Please note that any statements regarding future product development are forward looking and subject to change without notice.

  11. #26
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    Thanks for passing on the news Chuck. I realise that support needs to fade out over time, but I do also think that LW 2015.3 is special in that it is the last version that people can still use to reproduce legacy scenes, and as such deserves some TLC from NewTek for a while longer.

  12. #27
    Founding member raymondtrace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
    ...their last actual investment in LightWave...
    9.6 users shouldn't expect a fix but couldn't this still be a revenue opportunity for 2015 users? NT could put a bounty on this fix and get concerned Mac users to chip in for the expense.

    (I should specify I'm indifferent to the matter as I no longer use Mac...just here to empathize. This old dog started with Motorola 68k and continued through Apple's schizophrenic moves to PPC and Intel. Each iteration of Apple products costs developers and consumers. You've got to know you've signed up for that when you choose Mac.)
    LW7.5D, 2015, 2018, 2019 running portably on a USB drive on an Amiga 2500 running Wine.

  13. #28
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    I for one don't even mind paying for this within reasonable boundaries, say a hundred dollar per year of legacy support, or per patch once every while. In a year or two, if the dominance of other packages here doesn't become too big, I'd upgrade, but for the moment the switch in render engine is more of a hassle than a feature. Hence the need to keep on working with 2015.3, but with system that need to upgrade to Mojave.

  14. #29
    Motion Design Lead Iaian7's Avatar
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    I gotta chime in.

    I get that development was closed out on 2015, and normally, that would be fine (I've never expected older versions of Lightwave to be updated!). But with the updated render engine not being able to render old scenes...this effectively kills Lightwave, right? I've been using Lightwave since 2004, and the flexible node system (from 9.6 through 2015) has been critical to so much non-photoreal and stylised artwork, none of which appears to translate to 2018.

    If Lightwave is to ever be a solution moving forward, I need to be able to trust that client projects aren't going to be inaccessible in under than a year. Which is what we're faced with here. Of course I haven't upgraded to Mojave - no pro user should without ensuring program compatibility...

    ...but if NewTek is honestly killing off support for projects created just a year ago? That is an untenable situation, and not a platform that should ever be trusted or supported. Please don't screw over your users like this.
    Last edited by Iaian7; 12-21-2018 at 12:11 PM.
    John Einselen
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  15. #30
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    As a general rule, don't ever upgrade software or anything else that may cause problems in the middle of a production. Don't change what isn't broken so to speak.

    As for your second issue, what can't you reproduce in 2018 that was possible in 2015 in regards to non-photoreal and stylised artwork?

    Also, 2015 has been around for quite some time before 2018 got released, as the name implies, so I do not really understand what you mean with killing off support for projects created a year ago.

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