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Thread: Making Planets...

  1. #1

    Making Planets...

    Making Planets just got interesting! Take a look at Video Copilot's new plugin.

    It's free too.

    https://www.videocopilot.net/blog/20...n-trailer-orb/

    So how can we do this in Lightwave. I've done the Earth in Lightwave 2018 and it's not as good as being rendered in 2015. We need plugins like this. That make planets easy.

    I moved away from After Effect and now use Fusion Studio. So we need a After Effect used to take this plugin for a test drive and review it.
    Lightwave 2018.6, LWCAD 2018, ODTools 2018, RizomUV 2018, Substance Painter, SynthEyes, Fusion 9 Studio
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  2. #2
    Curmudgeon in Training Ma3rk's Avatar
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    Be glad too... if it's CS6 compatible. Many of Andrew's recent creations haven't been.
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  3. #3
    Cool, we'll look forward to hearing all about it and whats possible. If its compatible with CS6.
    Lightwave 2018.6, LWCAD 2018, ODTools 2018, RizomUV 2018, Substance Painter, SynthEyes, Fusion 9 Studio
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  4. #4
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Topster-71 View Post
    Making Planets just got interesting! Take a look at Video Copilot's new plugin.

    It's free too.

    https://www.videocopilot.net/blog/20...n-trailer-orb/

    So how can we do this in Lightwave. I've done the Earth in Lightwave 2018 and it's not as good as being rendered in 2015. We need plugins like this. That make planets easy.

    I moved away from After Effect and now use Fusion Studio. So we need a After Effect used to take this plugin for a test drive and review it.
    I donīt see why you shouldnīt be able to get equal or even better planets in 2018 than 2015, I think your results may be a lack of understanding the surfacing in 2018 or not using it right.
    I do however think that you may be able to get away with faster renders for planets in 2015 than in 2018.

    with 2018 you can also try the new primitive types, so you do not need to subpatch a planet.

  5. #5
    Not so newbie member lardbros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Topster-71 View Post
    Making Planets just got interesting! Take a look at Video Copilot's new plugin.

    It's free too.

    https://www.videocopilot.net/blog/20...n-trailer-orb/

    So how can we do this in Lightwave. I've done the Earth in Lightwave 2018 and it's not as good as being rendered in 2015. We need plugins like this. That make planets easy.

    I moved away from After Effect and now use Fusion Studio. So we need a After Effect used to take this plugin for a test drive and review it.


    Was going to ask the same thing Prometheus asked.

    What about 2018 makes the earth renderings look worse than 2015??

    Did you see this video by one of the devs? Creating the Earth without any geometry?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLohazy4A-Q

    You can do a realistic atmosphere (not very easily done in 2015), you can do a volumetric cloud layer (also not very easily done in 2015).

    Worth checking out the video and following along. The use of primitives makes it easier to assemble, but it will render slower than using standard geometry.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lardbros View Post
    Was going to ask the same thing Prometheus asked.

    What about 2018 makes the earth renderings look worse than 2015??

    Did you see this video by one of the devs? Creating the Earth without any geometry?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLohazy4A-Q

    You can do a realistic atmosphere (not very easily done in 2015), you can do a volumetric cloud layer (also not very easily done in 2015).

    Worth checking out the video and following along. The use of primitives makes it easier to assemble, but it will render slower than using standard geometry.
    I don't see any appealing result in that tutorial.

    I'm not saying it's not possible in LW, but what was shown doesn't come anywhere close to what Orb seems to be able to do.

    Not using AE (not fund of subscription), so I won't have access to it. However Orb looks great to me.

    By using LW + TFD or C4D + X-Particles/Thinking Particles/TFD/Krakatoa, similar results should be possible. It should be more customizable than using an AE plugin and is well integrated within the 3D scene. Problem is with LW and TFD is that it doesn't work with the new 2018 volumetrics and it doesn't support particle advection. LW2018 volumetrics with perlin noise texture might also achieve nice results by itself but lacks control and UI representation.

  7. #7
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marander View Post
    I don't see any appealing result in that tutorial.

    I'm not saying it's not possible in LW, but what was shown doesn't come anywhere close to what Orb seems to be able to do.

    Not using AE (not fund of subscription), so I won't have access to it. However Orb looks great to me.

    By using LW + TFD or C4D + X-Particles/Thinking Particles/TFD/Krakatoa, similar results should be possible. It should be more customizable than using an AE plugin and is well integrated within the 3D scene. Problem is with LW and TFD is that it doesn't work with the new 2018 volumetrics and it doesn't support particle advection. LW2018 volumetrics with perlin noise texture might also achieve nice results by itself but lacks control and UI representation.
    The problem here is that Anti is just showing a basic setup..and hasnīt a real complete vid with atmosphere..it can most certainly be pushed much more, but the thing is...it takes time and is most likely far more complex,
    the new volumetrics wasnīt designed with creating planets Specificly in mind, on contrary to this after effects plugin, if you would want anything that is aimed for this, just go back and invest in After effects again, it will not be as easy in lightwave..but end result may come close if you spend many many hours ...loads of hours in comparison to After effects and this new plugin, I say this without actually knowing how easy it will be....so this is a guess, but I do not think it will be a too far away guess.

    What one also should consider, Lightwave 2018 primitives are slow to render if you want infinite detail as After effects promise, you have to employ displacement on Lightwave primitives...and in comparison to Antiīs vid...that would significantly increase rendertime, and as this after effects plugin is GPU optimized...After Effects would win the performance and also ease of use race between doing it in Lightwave or in After Affects, Itīs a special tool.
    So when Lightwave Gets GPU rendering for this, or simply use octane..which is additional cost, that may boost some stuff upp, but there are probably loads more that simply is specially designed in After Effects for a task like this, so is it worth it to tweak and tweak Lightwave, or invest in after effects withouth this plugin costing anything?


    Old 2015 sample, no geometry ...Old hypervoxels system, including cloud layers..though I really didnīt do any surfacing on this planet, nor a proper atmosphere around it.
    Itīs a water planet (without specularity) and without any land, so make sure to bring a boat.


  8. #8
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marander View Post

    By using LW + TFD or C4D + X-Particles/Thinking Particles/TFD/Krakatoa, similar results should be possible. It should be more customizable than using an AE plugin and is well integrated within the 3D scene. Problem is with LW and TFD is that it doesn't work with the new 2018 volumetrics and it doesn't support particle advection. LW2018 volumetrics with perlin noise texture might also achieve nice results by itself but lacks control and UI representation.
    I do not follow you about X- particles/ thinking particles or fluids at all here? and krakatoa...where would that work within the planet setup? or do you mean the space environment around it?

  9. #9
    Not so newbie member lardbros's Avatar
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    Again, agree with Prom here.

    Antti's setup was just a quick video showcasing the primitives and volumes in 2018. If you do your own, you can get awesome results in 2018.

    What you're not seeing on the ORB video is how long it takes them, the post processing done in AE afterwards, and how easy it is to achieve it.

    Also... I really very much doubt many VFX studios would use a fluid sim for a planet sized object.
    Why would you need advection on particles for a planet too?
    Kind of irrelevant in terms of the subject at hand.
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    Dreamer Ztreem's Avatar
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    I would be very surprised if the orb plugin do not render in almost realtime as most other video copilot plugins. So even if you could do it in LW it would be cumbersome and slow in comparison.

  11. #11
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ztreem View Post
    I would be very surprised if the orb plugin do not render in almost realtime as most other video copilot plugins. So even if you could do it in LW it would be cumbersome and slow in comparison.
    I donīt believe any cloud layer in after effects ...practices any true volumetric ray marching, wich is quite the opposite to what lightwave does if you try and implement volumetric clouds..and ergo, quite a lot slower.
    I suspect it is somekind of hack trick to get a sense of depth in cloud layers, but I know too little about that plugin...and if such, you would have to treat lightwave with hacks as well, and not use volumetrics.



  12. #12
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lardbros View Post
    Again, agree with Prom here.

    Antti's setup was just a quick video showcasing the primitives and volumes in 2018. If you do your own, you can get awesome results in 2018.

    What you're not seeing on the ORB video is how long it takes them, the post processing done in AE afterwards, and how easy it is to achieve it.

    Also... I really very much doubt many VFX studios would use a fluid sim for a planet sized object.
    Why would you need advection on particles for a planet too?
    Kind of irrelevant in terms of the subject at hand.
    Yes...and fluid sims, well not in direct scene context I would think be any practical, doing fluid sims in flat land, then render out image sequence and then mapping that for density in aa volumetric cloud layer would however be one effect you could try, like a huge meteor hitting earth and pushing fluids, when mapped to a planetary cloud layer, that could be looking quite cool.

    Particle advection...no idea what marander ment about that for the case in hand, itīs a limitation of tFD though.

  13. #13
    Dreamer Ztreem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    I donīt believe any cloud layer in after effects ...practices any true volumetric ray marching, wich is quite the opposite to what lightwave does if you try and implement volumetric clouds..and ergo, quite a lot slower.
    I suspect it is somekind of hack trick to get a sense of depth in cloud layers, but I know too little about that plugin...and if such, you would have to treat lightwave with hacks as well, and not use volumetrics.


    I don’t think orb will use real volumetrics or raytracing, it’s AE so more like game engine kind of stuff combined with 2D comps. Look at element 3D for AE to get the wibe. I think Orb is similar to element 3D but limited to spheres... sure you can use whatever tricks you can come up with in Lightwave it still will be slower and more cumbersome to setup for sure.

  14. #14
    OK, just catching up on people replys.

    1st I'm still getting my head round nodes, so I'm no pro yet. When I started out, I Google all the free tuts I could find and tried them out. Antt's Video looks promising but Lightwave's Volumetrics soon slowed my machine down to the point of being painfully slow and experimenting was a drag. LW2018 does a good Earth but I can't get the atmosphere the same as LW2015 - I've included a few screen Grab to illustrate my problem. In LW2018 I can't get the clouds visible though the atmosphere on the Horizon. I idea was to perfect the Earth and the transform the Technics to other planet designs.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    This Grab shows the 2018 node for the Atmosphere

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The 2015 version does not use nodes, just standard materials.

    Here are some rim/horizon shot shots
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    And the classic shot so far.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    Yes...and fluid sims, well not in direct scene context I would think be any practical, doing fluid sims in flat land, then render out image sequence and then mapping that for density in aa volumetric cloud layer would however be one effect you could try, like a huge meteor hitting earth and pushing fluids, when mapped to a planetary cloud layer, that could be looking quite cool.

    Particle advection...no idea what marander ment about that for the case in hand, itīs a limitation of tFD though.
    I would try to do the nice looking fog / turbulences around the planets seen from Orb with a fluid system.

    But for doing this in LW would require that the new 2018 volumetrics and TFD work together which don't. And TFD itself is quite limited what can be done with it, there in not much artistic control over the particles. With limited possibilities maybe just use the 2018 volumetrics with an animated noise (maybe one primitive sphere for the planet and another one for the volume).

    About the Particle Advection, yes you're right, not required in this scenario but could be used for additional effects (for example for an alien planet glimmering particles around those turbulences or secondary spawned particles etc.).

    About Orb - I wouldn't be surprised if it runs very fast and as someone mentioned, using GPU enabled game technology.

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