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Thread: Plug-in Question

  1. #16
    Axes grinder- Dongle #99
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    OK, so apparently people don't want a simple chart.

    Re compatibilty: those functions that are now superseded by native should be underlined by the LW3D organization, as was recently done by lertola's (?) addition to the dox re PARTS MOVE, wherein he demo'd the MESH PART node as a replacement for DP KIT "Part Move" et al functionality ( https://docs.lightwave3d.com/display...LightWave+2018), which seemed to be escaping some users.
    They only call it 'class warfare' when we fight back.
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  2. #17
    Founding member raymondtrace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeric_synergy View Post
    OK, so apparently people don't want a simple chart...
    I don't see where anybody said that. We might be discussing two separate issues.

    We don't need a simple chart (or anything else) that is separately maintained from the plugin database, using redundant/unmanaged data. We might benefit with an additional view from that database that looks like a simple chart.
    LW7.5D, LW2015.3, LW2018.0.x running portably on a USB drive on an Amiga 2500 running Wine.

  3. #18
    Axes grinder- Dongle #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by raymondtrace View Post
    We might benefit with an additional view from that database that looks like a simple chart.
    And we don't have control over views. OF COURSE I wouldn't mind if we had display control of the existing database, but what are the ODDS of that occurring before the heat death of the universe?

    I just think a text chart would be done far faster. VERY far faster. Almost infinitely faster.
    They only call it 'class warfare' when we fight back.
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  4. #19
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeric_synergy View Post
    And we don't have control over views. OF COURSE I wouldn't mind if we had display control of the existing database, but what are the ODDS of that occurring before the heat death of the universe?

    I just think a text chart would be done far faster. VERY far faster. Almost infinitely faster.
    I think this is the crux of the problem. While it'd be great if we could get a column/field added to the LW plugin db for "LW2018 compatibility", and a report view added that offers a spreadsheet-like view, I do think history's been pretty clear that there's no way such changes will happen in any remotely timely manner.

    So, if expecting timely changes to the LW plugin db contents and reporting isn't practical, producing a separate spreadsheet/chart (or sticky thread, or whatever) of "LW2018-compatible plugins" becomes the (likely) easiest/fastest/most-pragmatically-viable means to get such data publicly available in reasonable timeframe.

    I'm no fan of having something driven by redundant, static data versus using the existing plugin db either. However, as nobody outside Newtek (if even them) has direct access to the plugin db data, I see no other easy/fast means of getting such a compatibility list directly pulling from existing LW plugin db published any time soon. Do you?

    What Jeric's proposing might not be an optimal solution, but it does appear to be one that can feasibly be done in a timely manner -- which I believe is his main point, but if I've misunderstood, I'm sure he'll correct me.
    John W.
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  5. #20
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raymondtrace View Post
    It would also be good if NT operated a plugin app store, like auto****. https://apps.autodesk.com/MAYA/en/De...ng=en&os=Win64

    Offering a central store like this would make it easier on developers who don't want to be bothered with setting up their own web site...and for users who have to look to archive.org to dig up old plugins abandoned years ago by some developers.
    I strongly agree, something like that would be great, both for convenience (to users and devs) as well as in it's "lasting store" potential. By offering direct browse/install integration into LW, it could add another reason to upgrade as well. Having the free marketing, etc. would also likely encourage third-party development. There are lots of potential wins there.

    Alas, Newtek's track record with LW IT-related projects, this forum, etc. hasn't ever really been great. Operating such a store requires a bunch of effort put into curation, fraud prevention, and general oversight and management. Unless Newtek could find a third-party company willing to develop and maintain such store services at minimal cost, I really don't see it as something they'd be up for undertaking for LW. Still, agreed, it'd be very good to have, and is clearly the direction the 3D markets are taking.

    Hmm...does the Tricaster "ecosystem" have such a sponsored store? Certainly that'd offer a much, much greater upside potential for Newtek, so if it isn't happening for Tricaster, the odds of it happening for LW seem vanishingly slim at best.
    John W.
    LW2015.3UB/2018.0.5 on MacPro(12C/24T/10.13.6),32GB RAM, NV 1080ti

  6. #21
    Axes grinder- Dongle #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwiede View Post
    Hmm...does the Tricaster "ecosystem" have such a sponsored store? Certainly that'd offer a much, much greater upside potential for Newtek, so if it isn't happening for Tricaster, the odds of it happening for LW seem vanishingly slim at best.
    Possibly the understatment of the week.

    Quote Originally Posted by jwiede
    What Jeric's proposing might not be an optimal solution, but it does appear to be one that can feasibly be done in a timely manner -- which I believe is his main point, but if I've misunderstood, I'm sure he'll correct me.
    Exactly. Let's not let the perfect be the enemy of "good enough".

    Your points about NewTek's inability to handly ongoing data services is taken: this is exactly the sort of task an ACTUAL wiki might be good at (it just seems to me that LightWIKI never actually was a good reference): updated by users, ONE spot, etc. That's BETTER than a sticky thread, exactly because it would not be a thread. It would just be a table.

    Aside from the dozens of LScripts that were generously created (mostly gratis, buddha bless the writers), there's not that many hardcore (i.e. compiled) plugins remaining, right?
    They only call it 'class warfare' when we fight back.
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  7. #22
    Founding member raymondtrace's Avatar
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    I share in the skepticism and disappointment of NT marketing efforts. However, in recent days "2018" appeared in the list of LW versions ( https://www.lightwave3d.com/assets/p.../submit_entry/ ). So somebody @ NT is poking at this.

    Allegedly, ODRoot will offer a plugin DB/store ( https://www.origamidigital.com/lwNews/#page5 ). As much as I appreciate Oliver's tools, I know what happened to flay.com and setuptab.com...and believe NT is the ideal source for this kind of data. But I still look forward to what's to come.

    It would not take much effort to scrape the pages at https://www.lightwave3d.com/assets/plugins/ and load them into another database. This could be done in a day, including the addition of features discussed above. The only reason why I wouldn't do this is because there's be no way to synchronize with any updates that might be made on lightwave3d.com. But then, is synchronization really an issue if NT never updates its own DB?

    Perhaps if nothing @ NT resolves soon...

    Regarding "fraud prevention", the Maya example link ( https://apps.autodesk.com/MAYA/en/De...ng=en&os=Win64 ) requires little responsibility on AD's end. If you try the "buy now" button, it just leads you to a PayPal screen for the plugin's author. AD is not involved in the transaction.

    My plugin DB bug report included an offer of help (that's "free" if anyone @ NT is reading this). Let's make something useful.

    Quote Originally Posted by jeric_synergy View Post
    ...Aside from the dozens of LScripts that were generously created (mostly gratis, buddha bless the writers), there's not that many hardcore (i.e. compiled) plugins remaining, right?
    There's enough that I've got a list of them still to buy. My plugin archive is up to 125 developer folders, 1400+ ls/lsc, 150+ py/pyc, and 700+ p files. This is way more than I can make use (or even sense) of.
    LW7.5D, LW2015.3, LW2018.0.x running portably on a USB drive on an Amiga 2500 running Wine.

  8. #23
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raymondtrace View Post
    Regarding "fraud prevention", the Maya example link ( https://apps.autodesk.com/MAYA/en/De...ng=en&os=Win64 ) requires little responsibility on AD's end. If you try the "buy now" button, it just leads you to a PayPal screen for the plugin's author. AD is not involved in the transaction.
    I wish that were the only type of fraud prevention in question.

    Stores are constantly attacked/infested by unscrupulous types fraudulently selling "mimic items", or otherwise selling questionable products. Preventing that kind of thing requires continuous monitoring and validation of accounts, sold items, and so forth. Stores have a lot more to deal with these days than used to be the case, precisely because they've become so prevalent and driven new forms of "phishing/mimic-fraud" as a result. On top of all of those kinds of concerns, there's also continual need for monitoring for "better known" kinds of inappropriate or illegal content (incl. IP violations, piracy, payment fraud, etc.).

    It's nowhere near as simple as just allowing vetted vendors to register and sell products anymore. Too many bad people have motivation and means to take advantage of such systems, and are well-aware of and well-equipped to do so. The processes and systems (and security) required for such vendor presences have unavoidably become much more complex and costly as a result. You'd be quite shocked how much staff time and effort is continually consumed running something even as "constrained" as the AD App Store.
    Last edited by jwiede; 06-15-2018 at 04:58 PM.
    John W.
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  9. #24
    Founding member raymondtrace's Avatar
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    That's all true but we're already at a point where developers are promoting their tools here on NT's web property. In the past few months I've spent $1000+ on 4 developers that appear on these forums. All PayPal transactions. All could have been sketchy transactions.

    A decent way to discern real developers from a scammer is to relate their product lock ID, also maintained in the NT hive mind. If NT can't verify you as a customer, you can't sell your plugin or rate/comment as a user of a plugin.

    It would be a wonderful problem if we ever got to the point where NT was overwhelmed with developers to validate.
    LW7.5D, LW2015.3, LW2018.0.x running portably on a USB drive on an Amiga 2500 running Wine.

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