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Thread: Windows 10 Annoyances

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    Windows 10 Annoyances

    Hi guys,

    I support quite a few Tricaster owners and these days an ever-growing number of TC1's, and these TC1's have all shipped running on top of Windows 10. The problem I'm observing is that many of the 'features' of Windows 10 seem to have taken the Newtek team by surprise when it came to using it as the base OS. To take just a couple of the more obvious examples;

    Updates
    I get that Windows Update is a really tricky beast to defeat, and the policies of Windows 10 on mandatory updates are fairly well known - but with that being the case why would Newtek ship systems knowing they are susceptible to such problems? The common refrain of "Oh, we think we have fixed that but it's probably not in a public build yet" isn't really a good one - after all, what if you shipped it and later found out you couldn't fix it? There's little to no guidance available for end-users when this jumps into the middle of their production and shuts them out. Why not? This is not a new problem. The users don't know whether they are doing the wrong thing by installing these updates anyway; given Newtek will happily nag them to death every time they start up if they think they have detected anything other than the standard install the box shipped with why the oversight?

    Internet Explorer
    Elements of the UI mandate the use of IE (eg; Streaming Web Browser) but it's still based upon an ancient version of IE. Why IE? Was Chromium too hard? You can imagine the look on my face when I went to demo how you can click on the globe icon in the top-right to get to a web page that can give them help information only to be greeted by a screen from the TC1's own web server telling me to use a newer browser like Chrome. How about taking a bit of your own advice there, Newtek?

    The updates alone skate very close to making these device not fit for purpose. If you guys haven't worked out how to make Win10 work properly perhaps you ought to go back to distributing on Windows 7?

  2. #2
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    We actually provide guidance on Windows 10 updates https://support.newtek.com/hc/en-us/...ows-10-updates. We strongly recommend that users schedule automatic updates for off hours.
    Zane Condren
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    NewTek Inc.
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    Appreciate the reply, Zane. It's certainly nowhere in the manual that I've found. How is anyone going to find it in that knowledgebase? It's not listed anywhere under TC1.

    Now, onto this recommendation that users schedule updates for off-hours - I present to you two very plausible scenarios;
    1: What about the userbase that produces on a 24 hour cycle? Where are their off-hours?
    2: The live production industry is often unpredictable, as NewTek well know. What are off-hours in this business anyway?

    Since this is something that is guaranteed to affect any customer that connects one of these things to the Internet (and as a percentage of the userbase that's got to be more than half you'd think), do you think that burying this advice in the knowledgebase (which is about the most end-customer unfriendly thing you could ever want them to see) is appropriate? Particularly when the traditional advice from NewTek has always been "do not update this"? Personally I feel like NewTek should take a little more responsibility here. You can't just leave this to everyone else to sort out for you.

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    We consider the knowledge base to be the most up to date information on the product so if you are looking for the answer to a problem its best to always look there first. In fact, if you use the support request form to submit a support case (https://support.newtek.com/hc/en-us/requests/new) it actually does a real-time search of all Knowledge base articles as you are typing the subject line. We understand that in live production there is no such thing as standard off hours which is why we don't automatically schedule updates from the factory. I will submit a request for our documentation team to add something to the manual to cover this but that fact is the vast majority of users never even think to open it vs. the knowlledge base which is craweled by search engines. In fact if you google Windows 10 updates for my TriCaster the KBA I linked to is the first result.
    Zane Condren
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    Given it's something that's guaranteed to come up constantly, why not build an option for it into Administrator Mode? Easy code, and stops users fiddling around with the group policy editor. Doesn't fix the scenario for #1 or #2 though.

    I think we will need to agree to disagree on the knowledgebase. It's incredibly user-unfriendly - it is poorly organised, doesn't date entries so you have no way of knowing if something is new, or whether it's old and irrelevant. Case in point:
    Google "Tricaster Windows 10 Updates". The article you linked titled "Scheduling Windows 10 updates" is the first result, I agree. But I don't want to schedule them, I don't want them appearing at all, right? So, result number two is this one: https://support.newtek.com/hc/en-us/...indows-Updates. It looks for all intents and purposes like the "most up to date information on the product" as you describe it. It tells me I'm not allowed to update it. It then points me to an ancient copy of the manual. Surely that's not the customer experience you guys are proud to stand behind, am I right?

    I'm pleased to hear that you guys push knowledgebase articles to people who fill out the support form. That's smart business - less emails for you guys to reply to. I'd do the same if I were you. But what we are talking about here is that something has already gone wrong by the time you're wanting the customer to go poking through the knowledgebase in the hope of finding something relevant and useful, much less having to log a support case with you (which is great if you're in North America, but far less useful when you're not like we are). This is totally foreseeable for you guys. This is a product defect that you know about, and that you know so many customers are going to experience. Do you want them to have to go looking for you when this inevitably happens? Or would you prefer that they already know what to do? Or better yet, would you prefer that it not happen at all?

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    Quote Originally Posted by webslave View Post
    This is totally foreseeable for you guys. This is a product defect that you know about, and that you know so many customers are going to experience. Do you want them to have to go looking for you when this inevitably happens? Or would you prefer that they already know what to do? Or better yet, would you prefer that it not happen at all?
    Oh, wouldn't that be wonderful ... of course, speaking generally, it is totally unrealistic.

    The sad truth is that problems are completely inherent to the tech landscape. Many of the constituent elements of advanced technical products are fluid, not static. This makes it completely impossible to anticipate every potential scenario that could arise from some policy change at Microsoft, unexpected driver update, etc., etc. The evening news tonight will almost certainly offer multiple items involving a technical fiasco, a product recall, the breach of a 'secure' database, a $30 million dollar aircraft catching fire or falling apart, etc., etc., no matter how diligent the company involved has been.

    The digital paradigm and networking have revolutionized what we can do and what we can afford; but the complex and interdependent nature of these new technologies means that, despite any and all effort, problems of greater or lesser degree will arise without warning. Quite apart from TriCaster, one or another of the larger digital components of my modern life with find some way to screw itself up pretty much weekly, if not daily. One can keep a weather eye out for changes with potential negative impact, and test constantly to minimize surprises ... and we do that. Surprises will come nonetheless, and the ability to handle these pragmatically is a skill worth developing. Dismissing a Windows dialog is a nuisance, and we'd love for it to go away - but the port engine is not going up in flames.

    BTW, I tend to agree with you about the organization of the Knowledge Base, but I still think it has important potential. It's pretty clear by now that a small minority actually read the docs, while most others look for quick answers online. Give it a little time to mature.
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    Certainly, you guys ship a product on an OS you don't control, and arguably these days is no longer intended for the job you're asking it to do. I sympathise with you - it's hit a lot of industries hard. But why move to W10 then? W7 didn't disappear - it just got a little harder to license.

    I think this updates business is a bit more than just a nuisance though. Sure, the operator sees it and freaks out and calls someone who probably calls me. Customer is unhappy but it's probably not a deal breaker. But when that update breaks the machine? What's the plan then, guys? What about when it crashes in the middle of a show requiring a reboot and the boot is delayed 10 minutes while it does updates? If smoke isn't pouring from the port engine by now I don't know when it will be. Being blase about whether the rather expensive bit of kit you bought is going to work when your *** is on the line doesn't inspire confidence. This is a known product defect, and I think you guys have got to be a little more open with people about it. You guys didn't choose to make the OS that way, but you did get to choose the OS.

    I guess, when I look at an issue like the one I described where the web server on the Tricaster itself serves up a page that tells me to go away until I'm using a more modern browser - on a page that has no need for a more modern browser anyway I might add - on the Web browser you guys force me to use I have to start to wonder if the left hand knows what the right hand is doing over there, y'know?

    The Knowledge Base could be great. I don't think time is the issue here - in fact, the most common story with such repositories is that they don't scale well, and you eventually end up in a situation just like this were it's full of out of date information, information where the categories don't properly line up any more, etc. You guys aren't the first to have this problem and won't be the last. The issue at hand though is right now you're relying upon it to be the sole fix for an inevitable product defect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by webslave View Post
    But when that update breaks the machine? What's the plan then, guys? What about when it crashes in the middle of a show requiring a reboot and the boot is delayed 10 minutes while it does updates?
    If this sort of thing actually happened (apart from rare exceptions), our phones would be on fire. This said, obviously we continue to try to find ways to eliminate all possibility ,,,

    Quote Originally Posted by webslave View Post
    I guess, when I look at an issue like the one I described where the web server on the Tricaster itself serves up a page that tells me to go away until I'm using a more modern browser - on a page that has no need for a more modern browser anyway I might add - on the Web browser you guys force me to use I have to start to wonder if the left hand knows what the right hand is doing over there, y'know?
    All of this seems so obvious, right? Even our own LivePanel cannot be made to work perfectly with the default browser while working well with more modern ones (hence the hint to install something else). I think, then, that one might reasonably assume that there have been many discussions about this here, and thus just perhaps then, a resolution isn't as simple as it sounds. Unfortunately, licensing requirements prevent us from shipping with just any browser installed, so what to do? What we can do is suggest you install something else, and support that solution. Personally, I've been running Firefox for quite awhile ... works like a charm generally.

    Quote Originally Posted by webslave View Post
    The Knowledge Base could be great. I don't think time is the issue here - in fact, the most common story with such repositories is that they don't scale well, and you eventually end up in a situation just like this were it's full of out of date information, information where the categories don't properly line up any more, etc. You guys aren't the first to have this problem and won't be the last. The issue at hand though is right now you're relying upon it to be the sole fix for an inevitable product defect.
    That's really just not true, sorry. We have pursued, and will continue to pursue both software fixes as well as working with M$ on this matter (reverting to a legacy OS is far from an ideal solution for many reasons).

    On the Knowledge base, frankly, it will be a whole lot easier to massage it into the most useful form it can take and maintain and update it than it has been to try to maintain a similar body of information across multiple product manuals - especially given the overwhelming preference of those who have voted with their mouse-clicks for that form of delivery.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    If this sort of thing actually happened (apart from rare exceptions), our phones would be on fire. This said, obviously we continue to try to find ways to eliminate all possibility ,,,
    Steve, it does actually happen. Had one crash not more than three days ago and had to sit through updates during the boot cycle. The reason your phone wasn't on fire is because there's nobody to answer it. As for updates breaking the OS I'm sure you're already well aware that this has happened on W10 systems several times already. Maybe it's good management, or maybe you've just been lucky so far?

    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    All of this seems so obvious, right? Even our own LivePanel cannot be made to work perfectly with the default browser while working well with more modern ones (hence the hint to install something else). I think, then, that one might reasonably assume that there have been many discussions about this here, and thus just perhaps then, a resolution isn't as simple as it sounds. Unfortunately, licensing requirements prevent us from shipping with just any browser installed, so what to do? What we can do is suggest you install something else, and support that solution. Personally, I've been running Firefox for quite awhile ... works like a charm generally.
    Ah, Steve... I'm not sure you're on the money here at all. This:

    ...is not a "hint". It's a hard stop. That's what you get on a TC1 when you click the globe symbol in the top-right of the UI to get to the help resources. That's what I'm talking about when I say the left hand must not know what the right hand is doing. It's got nothing to do with LivePanel (which, sure, I completely agree needs a modern browser). And it certainly has nothing to do with installing another browser - and no, you guys don't allow me to replace the integrated browser in the live desktop environment. If you did we wouldn't be having this conversation. You don't need a modern browser to be able to see this:


    As for licensing - CEF is released under the new BSD license - hardly something that is a hassle to license. Even so, if what you were saying was in fact correct the system is going to complain every time I try and start it that it doesn't like Chrome being installed on it. Hey, I know I can go into the registry and tell it to mind it's own business but why should I be telling an end-customer to do that just so they can use the help resources that there's a prominent button for in the UI?

    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    That's really just not true, sorry. We have pursued, and will continue to pursue both software fixes as well as working with M$ on this matter (reverting to a legacy OS is far from an ideal solution for many reasons).
    You've also got contact details for everyone who has registered a TC1. Ever thought about sending them something to let them know?

    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    On the Knowledge base, frankly, it will be a whole lot easier to massage it into the most useful form it can take and maintain and update it than it has been to try to maintain a similar body of information across multiple product manuals - especially given the overwhelming preference of those who have voted with their mouse-clicks for that form of delivery.
    ...in the absence of any other options, sure. The point remains that this is a common problem - and right now what's there isn't yet a solution. Even assuming you guys will get to the solution part, what about the customers that exist now?

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    I really don't want to waste a lot more time getting into the petty details, but I'll take one more stab at this.

    Quote Originally Posted by webslave View Post
    Steve, it does actually happen. Had one crash not more than three days ago and had to sit through updates during the boot cycle.
    The steps Zane has pointed to should dramatically reduce the possibility of that happening, if not eliminate it entirely. One could argue (if one was argumentative) that we could preset this to some usually preferred 'off-hours' time in the disk image prior to shipping, which is an idea worthy of some consideration, but at best this could still bite some unsuspecting users who operate at whatever hour we arbitrarily decided upon.

    Quote Originally Posted by webslave View Post
    As for updates breaking the OS I'm sure you're already well aware that this has happened on W10 systems several times already.
    See my earlier comments on the nature of living in the digital age. This is hardly exclusive to Windows 10 (there were occasional issues with Win7, too, and I've had far more trouble with OSX and iOS updates than Windows), though I'm not about to say Win10 is a shining example of what we'd all love to have. Basically, no matter where you go with these things, it boils down to 'stuff happens'; do all you can to minimize it, and when it does happen anyway, deal with it. In mission critical installations, this usually involves redundancy in system architecture.

    Quote Originally Posted by webslave View Post
    That's what you get on a TC1 when you click the globe symbol in the top-right of the UI to get to the help resources. That's what I'm talking about when I say the left hand must not know what the right hand is doing. It's got nothing to do with LivePanel ...
    Au contraire. That globe icon (which is gone in the next version, btw) is pointed at the LivePanel URL, on both TC1 and VMC1. However, VMC1 includes LP, while it's an add-on for TC1, which simply defaults to a different page until LP is enabled. That said, I didn't say LP was the only reason it is good to install a modern browser. It's just one.

    Quote Originally Posted by webslave View Post
    and no, you guys don't allow me to replace the integrated browser in the live desktop environment. If you did we wouldn't be having this conversation.
    Yes, actually we do. Did you try installing FireFox, for example, as suggested by the (very evident) hint? If you did and you're having a problem with it in some manner, please submit a bug report.

    Quote Originally Posted by webslave View Post
    As for licensing - CEF is released under the new BSD license - hardly something that is a hassle to license.
    I believe that the notion of pre-installing Chrome was dismissed for other reasons. But I'm really not going to get down into the weeds on every detail here, sorry. I will say that feedback and suggestions are both welcome, and I would not say that is is never the case that the left hand doesn't inform the right hand, but if you're imagining that no-one gives these things any thought, you are just plain wrong on an impressive scale.

    Quote Originally Posted by webslave View Post
    Hey, I know I can go into the registry and tell it to mind it's own business but why should I be telling an end-customer to do that just so they can use the help resources that there's a prominent button for in the UI?
    We are certainly interested in possible ways to make this less troublesome for users, whether by friendlier defaults or by providing easier access to relevant settings. I personally don't think there is any easy 'quick-fix' that solves this issue - if there were, it would have been done already - but this is not to say it can't be improved. This is why Fogbugz has "Feature Request" and "Inquiry" options, not just "Bug".

    Quote Originally Posted by webslave View Post
    You've also got contact details for everyone who has registered a TC1. Ever thought about sending them something to let them know?
    This has come up from time to time, and there is some subset of users who would like to be on a mailing list. The idea isn't universally popular, so it would have to be on some sort of opt-in basis. This gets into an area involving by Marketing and MIS, in addition to CS, and is not really in my realm to comment intelligently on. I do know similar discussions have arisen but never led to a result of this sort. I'm not even sure who to refer you to, to be honest.

    Quote Originally Posted by webslave View Post
    The point remains that this is a common problem - and right now what's there isn't yet a solution. Even assuming you guys will get to the solution part, what about the customers that exist now?
    Actually, as far as I am aware, both of the matters discussed in this post are currently manageable, if you follow the direction provided. If either fails for some reason I'm not aware of, please bug it.
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    Steve - I'm trying to read in between the lines here a bit. Are you saying that if we install and set as the default system browser something else, then TC1 will use that when we launch the browser in the Live environment? I can't recall if that hasn't been the case before or if we've studiously avoided doing that based on the long history of wanting to treat the machine like an appliance, but for some reason that has not been our experience over the years.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee-AVP View Post
    Steve - I'm trying to read in between the lines here a bit. Are you saying that if we install and set as the default system browser something else, then TC1 will use that when we launch the browser in the Live environment? I can't recall if that hasn't been the case before or if we've studiously avoided doing that based on the long history of wanting to treat the machine like an appliance, but for some reason that has not been our experience over the years.
    I am saying that, yes - from the time and version when we started popping up the suggestion to do that. If this fails, please bug it. As I said, I've been happily running Firefox on my TC for some time (though my machines are rather non-standard).
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    I really don't want to waste a lot more time getting into the petty details, but I'll take one more stab at this.
    C'mon Steve - I'm not trying to give you a hard time here, but a bunch of customers getting this stuff happen isn't quite petty - they are paying customers, after all!

    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    The steps Zane has pointed to should dramatically reduce the possibility of that happening, if not eliminate it entirely. One could argue (if one was argumentative) that we could preset this to some usually preferred 'off-hours' time in the disk image prior to shipping, which is an idea worthy of some consideration, but at best this could still bite some unsuspecting users who operate at whatever hour we arbitrarily decided upon.
    Agree, if the customer can come up with some consistent off-hours then they should for the most part be okay. If they can't (and at the very least you would have to say there's a not-insignificant number that can't) you guys don't have a solution for them? That's fine, but you'd have to expect people to be made aware at the time of purchase that your system is not suitable for 24-hour production. Otherwise you're just hanging the dealers out to dry, particularly in jurisdictions that have robust consumer protection laws (Australia, for example, specifically entitles the customer to a return in a case like this).

    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    See my earlier comments on the nature of living in the digital age. This is hardly exclusive to Windows 10 (there were occasional issues with Win7, too, and I've had far more trouble with OSX and iOS updates than Windows), though I'm not about to say Win10 is a shining example of what we'd all love to have. Basically, no matter where you go with these things, it boils down to 'stuff happens'; do all you can to minimize it, and when it does happen anyway, deal with it. In mission critical installations, this usually involves redundancy in system architecture.
    I completely agree - I have no doubt it's a real headache for you guys. I don't blame you for the way M$ has gone about this (and for the record in case I gave you the wrong idea with my screenshot I should point out I'm exclusively a M$ user), and agree with your comments re: OSX/iOS. I guess I wonder out-loud what happens when M$ steps things up and introduces a security model that makes what you guys get the Tricaster software to do impossible? I'm sure you guys have this flagged as a business risk.

    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    Au contraire. That globe icon (which is gone in the next version, btw) is pointed at the LivePanel URL, on both TC1 and VMC1. However, VMC1 includes LP, while it's an add-on for TC1, which simply defaults to a different page until LP is enabled. That said, I didn't say LP was the only reason it is good to install a modern browser. It's just one.
    Okay, on a LP-enabled system that makes some sense, but on a TC1 that isn't? That's just not great design to have the button immediately take you somewhere it can't go.

    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    Yes, actually we do. Did you try installing FireFox, for example, as suggested by the (very evident) hint? If you did and you're having a problem with it in some manner, please submit a bug report.
    No, I haven't tried it. See earlier comments about treating the box as an appliance (which from memory the manual still says to do). If you guys have made it possible to replace the default browser that's great. I checked the knowledgebase and couldn't find any information that would suggest this behaviour has changed, nor did I find anything in the changelog. Since the "hint" suggests (among the others) using Safari - it's not obvious to me that it's hinting me to install it on the Tricaster itself. I'll give it a try on one and report back. Thanks for letting us know this exists.

    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    I believe that the notion of pre-installing Chrome was dismissed for other reasons. But I'm really not going to get down into the weeds on every detail here, sorry. I will say that feedback and suggestions are both welcome, and I would not say that is is never the case that the left hand doesn't inform the right hand, but if you're imagining that no-one gives these things any thought, you are just plain wrong on an impressive scale.
    Software as complex as what you guys are producing here doesn't come from a culture of the left-hand not knowing what the right-hand is doing. With that said, you would have to admit that this looks like a case where it's managed to happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    We are certainly interested in possible ways to make this less troublesome for users, whether by friendlier defaults or by providing easier access to relevant settings. I personally don't think there is any easy 'quick-fix' that solves this issue - if there were, it would have been done already - but this is not to say it can't be improved. This is why Fogbugz has "Feature Request" and "Inquiry" options, not just "Bug".
    In honesty, I've never gotten anywhere with FogBugz. It's likely because I'm on the opposite side of the world to you guys. I'm sure it works really well for you guys, though. I suppose there's some frustration at play here, because you guys hold out a Tricaster as a production system that is easy for someone to pick up and use, and we recommend them to customers on that basis. I can understand why you guys wouldn't want to go to the trouble of creating a front-end UI for setting up/editing router control for example because the numbers of users on it are fairly low. Yeah, it's not fun to have to track down the router config file and edit it (particularly if your Tricaster doesn't have notepad on it for some reason...), but I get it. The updates thing though - that's something that affects every single user, so there's frustration there that it isn't made easier for the customers.

    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    This has come up from time to time, and there is some subset of users who would like to be on a mailing list. The idea isn't universally popular, so it would have to be on some sort of opt-in basis. This gets into an area involving by Marketing and MIS, in addition to CS, and is not really in my realm to comment intelligently on. I do know similar discussions have arisen but never led to a result of this sort. I'm not even sure who to refer you to, to be honest.
    Don't be shy guys - we seem to cop a barrage of emails every time one of you blows your nose at NAB or similar. All you need to ask is what you think is going to make a customer think about you in more positive terms; an email that says "Hey, here's a heads-up on something we know you're going to see at some point and what you can do about it." or copping a modal popup while you're live and not expecting it? I tested the options among the sample of customers I support and I'll give you one good guess on which one they universally preferred

    I appreciate the conversation and hope you don't think I'm out to get you. I own plenty of NewTek hardware, and provide operators, support and sales consultancy to plenty of people in-country to fulfill a gap. I get a bit passionate about helping out the customers and ensuring they are happy and wanting to buy more gear when their time of need arises. Seems to me we have similar goals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by webslave View Post
    C'mon Steve - I'm not trying to give you a hard time here, but a bunch of customers getting this stuff happen isn't quite petty - they are paying customers, after all!
    Indeed, and caring for their requirements is job 1. This means we need to listen to them and understand their needs. It should be clear, though that it does not mean that we can productively spend the time to publicly drill down to an infinite level of detail about the internal discussions over every topic that arises.

    If you'll allow me to be quite candid: These forums exist primarily to allow users to help one another, though they also serve as a useful feedback channel (though there are quite a few others of equal or greater value, both formal and informal). They really aren't a formal support channel for NewTek. Even so, I keep a close eye on them for several reasons, not least that they occasionally allow me to see the earliest glimmers of an unforeseen engineering issue that only presented after a release to the wider world ... but I simply cannot take time to rehash every matter here.

    Being fully candid, if I did so I'd never get any work done. There are always gadflies in any forum (not saying this applies in the present instance) who flit from thread to thread just looking for opportunities to pile on, to rain down scorn and demonstrate how much more clever they are than everyone else, and how if only they ran things it would be so so wonderful. (Over time, you can spot such individuals by their consistent tone. Almost anyone can be frustrated by some unexpected issue and let it show, and we don't mind that, but the overall posting history of gadflies inevitably shows a heavy preponderance of smarmy negativity. I could write a book about this personality type.) In general again, I have found over decades that their notions are often facile, but a lot of time can be wasted debating with them to no good purpose.

    So one must attempt to strike a balance, listening carefully, providing a little explanation where reasonable, but without getting sucked into endless black hole discussions by trolls who just want to pile on to say 'Me too!'

    Quote Originally Posted by webslave View Post
    That's fine, but you'd have to expect people to be made aware at the time of purchase that your system is not suitable for 24-hour production.
    I hate 'forced' updates as much as anyone, but accepting this premise would require that the same caveat be applied to the great preponderance of both Windows and OS X systems on the planet, whatever their application, not to mention my iPad ... rendering it effectively meaningless. This does not mean we do not continue to push back against it and try to find ways to mitigate the problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by webslave View Post
    I checked the knowledgebase and couldn't find any information that would suggest this behaviour has changed, nor did I find anything in the changelog. Since the "hint" suggests (among the others) using Safari - it's not obvious to me that it's hinting me to install it on the Tricaster itself. I'll give it a try on one and report back. Thanks for letting us know this exists.
    The big red message is meant to make it pretty obvious that we're now recommending this.

    Honestly, there are a half dozen cases open to try to address this in a better way, but it hasn't got the highest priority, really for the simple reason that it doesn't deserve to. Simply adding another browser in an update wouldn't be impossible, but it's not as straightforward as it sounds, and the downloads are already larger than we'd like. We'll ultimately handle this better, I'm sure, but I can't say when. In the meantime, as I've said a couple of times, just install Firefox (Chrome could work, if you must, but it's got a few issues).

    Quote Originally Posted by webslave View Post
    In honesty, I've never gotten anywhere with FogBugz.
    We live and die by Fogbugz here. Virtually nothing happens without a case, and I can tell you that Andrew personally reads every one of them that is entered, and I read almost all of them, too.
    --
    Regards, Steve
    Forum Moderator
    ("You've got to ask yourself one question ... 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya, spammer?")

  15. #15
    Registered User rbartlett's Avatar
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    Starting with Windows 10 'Creators Update' (1704) there are some easier-than-group-policy means to configure Windows and also some changes in the scope of what will be immediately updated. I'm sure it is true to say that 'how' we tweak Windows, and what transpires after updates will continue to be both inventive and not always without incident.

    (RightMouse-Windows flag = (RM)[88] )
    (RM) [88] -> Run =>" explorer ms-settings:windowsupdate-options"

    Options- The reminder that you've got an update in the chamber and to adjust the 'when' of it all is on this page.
    Pause Updates:This allows you to set a temporary pause (4 weeks), and if you untick, updates start immediately (forced).
    Options-On this same page you can also define that metered connections start the network download process of large updates and all the related disk thrashing. You'd need a complimentary config in your network-connections area to mark your ethernet port as 'metered' even though this is probably a false claim, but may not be if you're a mobile service and use the venue connectivity....

    Further, you can use 'Choose when updates are installed' to specify "Semi Annual Channel" instead of "Semi-Annual Channel (Targetted)". The targetted one is somewhat of a means for Microsoft to use you as a gamma-tester of feature enhancements (rather than mandatory security issues or bug fixes). Choosing the former used to be marked as "Current Branch for business" due to the set-back in date for anything new that might not have been proven in the wild to any large degree. I'd say that would be advisable to do if you're not a hobbyist or flying your TriCaster for pleasure.

    Navigate up from the above link, or go directly using:
    (RM) [88] -> Run =>" explorer ms-settings:windowsupdate"

    If you use your tricaster over the same typical hours (active hours) or you have a closedown time (when you're not broadcasting) then the parent Windows-settings screen can help you here. Set your active time to cover your working/operating hours and add a couple of hours either side to be sure that any update process is completed (in all likelihood, no warranty is included with my advice!).


    Beyond that, all I could recommend for a highly available TriCaster experience would be to consider means to put the machine onto an air-gap network and provide any streaming by compromising another machine or gateway/forwarding-device if you need that. It is going to be a hard call to request no updates are ever applied as this could be dangerous or at best, risky to your security and your data. This is very much a personal call. If Windows 10 was more readily available in 'Embedded' form, I'd imagine that would have been the NewTek preference for their solutions. Any attempt to make Windows work like the predecessor 'Windows Embedded' products would only be a kludge, I feel. It seems better as it is if slightly onerous on the operator to also be a systems-admin.

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