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Thread: New with LW 2018 LIGHTING Help PLEASE

  1. #1
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    New with LW 2018 LIGHTING Help PLEASE

    I just upgraded to LW 2018 I’m trying to figure out why my Rim light CAN be seen in open GL and the changes to the intensity or where you more it but when I render it does not show up.

    No matter how high I crank up the intensity when I do an F9 it does not show up.

    I deleted this light and tryied to add a new one, Nothing happens any different when I render it.

    I cloned one of the lights that does work, it’s still doesn’t show up in the renter. I see everything in open GL working just fine but with I do an F9 my third light my rim light my spot light will not show up. “Intensity falloff is off”. Thank you for your help.

  2. #2
    Still...Absolute Amateur scallahan1's Avatar
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    Hi,

    Can you upload the scene so a guru can peek at it? Probably something quite simple you're missing. Or maybe post a screenshot of the OGL screen and an F9 render?

    Steve

  3. #3
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    If your Rim light is a Spotlight, it may be a Falloff issue. Falloff for most Lights is enabled by default in LW2018, and the default falloff distance is 1 meter. In a really poor decision (IMO), Falloff Distance isn't accessible in the Light's Property panel, you *MUST* add a Light Falloff node to the Light's node graph:

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	141859 Click image for larger version. 

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    Or turn off Falloff, of course.

    mTp

  4. #4
    •••••••••••••••••••• rsfd's Avatar
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    ^ Wouldn't call it a poor decision to transfer the Falloff Distance as option into the Node Editor.
    The Lights now act physically correct by default, Falloff Distance option is not physically correct, so -as in real world- the main influences now are Light Intensity and the Light's position (distance to object).

    Joey_C, have you checked position (with the Light View Viewport) and that your Spotlight isn't excluded from objects?
    If you use a Spot Light as rim light, the light's position might be crucial for the result. Some lights (i.e. the Spot light) don't show good results in OpenGL, so VPR is probably better to preview the light's effect.
    Other than that, screenshots or scene posted, as scallahan1 suggested, would help others to help you.

  5. #5
    Make sure that at the bottom of the Light Properties panel, that "Normalize" is checked. As your lights change size so does their intensity. With Normalize off, a smaller light of a given intensity will give out less light, a bigger light more. With Normalize on, the intensity stays the same.

  6. #6
    Axes grinder- Dongle #99
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    Put your light ridiculously close to the object, and to the side, to see if it's doing ANYthing.

    My classic error for this is something is casting a shadow from that light.
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  7. #7
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    Reply

    I tried everything you all said, nothing seemed to work. I just uploaded the a proxy object and the scene.

    THANK YOU for all your help. I did learn a lot from you all.

    For the camera, can you tell me WHERE to find the "Reconstruction Filers" I like using "Michell (Soft)" and I have no idea where to find it. THANK YOU again.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I tried everything you all said, nothing seemed to work. I just uploaded the a proxy object and the scene.

    THANK YOU for all your help. I did learn a lot from you all.

    For the camera, can you tell me WHERE to find the "Reconstruction Filers" I like using "Michell (Soft)" and I have no idea where to find it. THANK YOU again.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I tried everything you all said, nothing seemed to work. I just uploaded the a proxy object and the scene.

    THANK YOU for all your help. I did learn a lot from you all.

    For the camera, can you tell me WHERE to find the "Reconstruction Filers" I like using "Michell (Soft)" and I have no idea where to find it. THANK YOU again.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  8. #8
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    RE: the sample scene / object, you may get better results if you match up the node input / output types correctly, so try the following:

    1. In the node graph for the Default Surface:
      • Feed the Surface Luminosity channel from the Alpha channel of the Mixer (2) node, not the Color channel
      • For the Mixer(2) node, feed the Color input with a Make Color node, choosing R, G or B for the Scalar output of the Wrap (1) node. Without choosing a color channel, it probably ends up pure white or a gray
    2. Change the Light Color on the Rim, Test Rim and Air Fill Lights to a harsh red to see the effect of them


    When I make these changes I get this F9 render, which clearly shows the effect of the harsh red Rim lights:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ModifiedNodeGraph_LightColors.jpg 
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ID:	141862

    I think feeding the Color output of the Mixer (2) into the Luminosity channel rather than the alpha overwhelms the effect of the Rim lights.

    mTp

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsfd View Post
    ^ Wouldn't call it a poor decision to transfer the Falloff Distance as option into the Node Editor.
    The Lights now act physically correct by default, Falloff Distance option is not physically correct, so -as in real world- the main influences now are Light Intensity and the Light's position (distance to object).
    And acting "physically correct" is good, is it? In the sample scene uploaded, Joey_C seems to be simulating a microscopic view of a biological cell of some sort. He may not have any intention of it representing an actual micrograph or a photo / video through a microscope lens, which would be the "real world" lighting in this case. In a Computer Generated Imagery application, IMO it seems unfortunate to have to learn how lights work "as in the real world" to illuminate a simple simulation or visualization.

    IMO, putting the Falloff Distance on the Light main panel allows the "real world behavior" guys to raise their eyebrows and shout "You Can't Adjust Falloff In Real World Lights!!!!", while allowing legacy customers and non-photorealistic creators to easily produce the lighting they want.

    As always, just my opinion!

    mTp
    Last edited by MonroePoteet; 05-27-2018 at 05:10 PM.

  10. #10
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonroePoteet View Post
    IMO, putting the Falloff Distance on the Light main panel allows the "real world behavior" guys to raise their eyebrows and shout "There's No Real World Falloff in Lights!!!!", while allowing legacy customers and non-photorealistic creators to easily produce the lighting they want.

    As always, just my opinion!

    mTp
    Agreed 100%!

    The whole "it's more realistic" argument is ridiculous, nothing about any of it is particularly "realistic" and pretending otherwise is just plain silly. A frequently-used control was moved from an easily-accessible location to a much less accessible/discoverable/convenient location and mechanism, to the detriment of UI efficiency.
    Last edited by jwiede; 05-27-2018 at 05:29 PM.
    John W.
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  11. #11
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    Thank you.

    So you saying it is my surface on the object causing the trouble?

  12. #12
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    Thank you MonroePoteet for all your time for all your help. If you can could you just send me the object back with the changes? I have so many nodes in this surface it is not clear when ones you want me to change. TKS. I am one of those visual learners. A picture in worth 1000 words.

  13. #13
    •••••••••••••••••••• rsfd's Avatar
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    @Joey_C
    Had a look at your scene and can only state that all lights are showing up fine in OpenGL, in VPR and F9 here.
    Had turned off any lights and then tested each one after another.
    (The „TestRim” Light of course has a much too high intensity but I get that this originates in your testing routine).
    „TestRim” and „Rim” Lights are so close in regard to the angle to the object that they mostly converge to the same light effect. So I just assume that it is meant as „one or the other”.

    In general, if you have a luminous object where luminosity is based on the incidence angle, you need to think about what effect you want to come up with at the end.
    The stronger the object’s luminosity the harder it will be to get any visible rim light effect on that object.

    > Reconstruction Filter
    You find these in „Render Properties > Buffers”.
    Make sure to enter the same filter for each buffer so that you will not get in trouble in post-production later on.

    Quote Originally Posted by MonroePoteet View Post
    And acting "physically correct" is good, is it?…
    It was just meant as a possible explanation why NewTek decided to do that change.
    As the new rendering system is of type „PBR”, this seems logical to me.
    But that’s just my opinion. I accept that your opinion is more important to you.

  14. #14
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    THANK YOU rsfd for having a look at my scene. Got it! Thanks so much!

    ps what do you mean "Make sure to enter the same filter for each buffer so that you will not get in trouble in post-production later on." "Each Buffer". You mean each scene that I render? Not sure I understand what the word "Buffers" mean in LW. TKS agian!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joey_C View Post
    Thank you MonroePoteet for all your time for all your help. If you can could you just send me the object back with the changes? I have so many nodes in this surface it is not clear when ones you want me to change. TKS. I am one of those visual learners. A picture in worth 1000 words.
    Hi Joey,

    Unfortunately, I didn't save the changes I made for the render I posted previously. As well, I don't really know what it's "supposed" to look like, but here are screen shots of the process I used this morning and the render results. See the names of each screen capture for a little explanation of each step.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	01_JumbledGraph_TooBig.jpg 
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ID:	141868 Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	141867

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	141866 Click image for larger version. 

Name:	04_MatchNodeTypes.jpg 
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ID:	141865 Click image for larger version. 

Name:	05_Rearranged_MaybeClearer.jpg 
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ID:	141864

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	RimLight_Render_0000.jpg 
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ID:	141869 With Distant Light 0 lux, 2 Rim and Fill changed to Red

    I think in yesterday's post I'd also turned off the backdrop or reduced the Global Illumination.

    mTp
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by MonroePoteet; 05-28-2018 at 07:58 AM. Reason: See image names for steps

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