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Thread: Layout Geometry Handling Capacity

  1. #46
    pass:sword OFF's Avatar
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    No, no, there are no instances. In fact of the matter is that the scene is very simple - a character and two layers of hair. This model was taken from a scene that was once sent to me by one client - the scene was made for Maya, I transferred it to LW.
    Perhaps the reason is that the character model contains a very large number of morphs - about 80 (!!). I'll try to do a test by deleting all these morphs to see how the speed changes.

    P.S. Yes, I can confirm - after removing a third of the morphs (most were just variants of the same emotions), the speed has appreciably grown.
    Last edited by OFF; 06-30-2018 at 02:16 AM.

  2. #47

    P.S. Yes, I can confirm - after removing a third of the morphs (most were just variants of the same emotions), the speed has appreciably grown.
    thanks, good info! might be valuable to report...

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  3. #48
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OFF View Post
    P.S. Yes, I can confirm - after removing a third of the morphs (most were just variants of the same emotions), the speed has appreciably grown.
    Okay, that's less surprising. Due to how OpenGL-based visualization pipelines work, stuff that requires CPU-based application of vertex-/poly-level transforms is inherently slow, and I'm pretty sure that's how LW handles morphs currently. They could look into building geometry "shaders" to handle morphs etc. on GPU (if they haven't or aren't already), but I suspect the age of LW's infrastructure design (as it is in many other cases) means it isn't really suitable for handling morphs in that manner. Hopefully LW2018's modifier stack changes may help in that regard, we'll see.

    In any case, I don't consider the slowdown you're experiencing with high numbers of morphs present particularly surprising. It's clearly an area where improvement would be valuable, but significantly improving it may require some fairly complex infrastructure work.

    I'd be very interested to hear more about the areas where they're focusing dev efforts, specifically in terms of what they consider performance optimization priorities, and whether cases like this are among them. Morphs are heavily-used functionality in LW, so significantly improving performance there at least appears to offer decent RoI at first glance. For whatever reason, though, NewTek just doesn't seem interested in having those kinds of discussions with customers.

    The problem with that, of course, is that means they don't necessarily get timely and reliable feedback on whether their internal priorities really are reflective of their customers' priorities, which can lead to a harmful divergence. It appears something similar may have occurred w.r.t. Modeler priorities. Perhaps the Modeler survey is a sign that NewTek's begun to recognize that potential for divergence and address it, or perhaps not.
    John W.
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  4. #49
    Axes grinder- Dongle #99
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    Not sure how MAYA stores morphs, and how simple-minded a conversion might be, BUT:

    if the morphs maps include the entirety of the model, but only a SMALL %age of the points are changing positions, LW users might be able to retain all the maps by clearing the maps of redundant/unchanged points.

    I have zero idea how one would automate that, but it seems like it definitely should be possible.

    That would be a good utility to have: "CULL MAPS". Unless there's a reason to retain point positions that do not change from the base position..... hmmm....

    EDIT: perhaps OFF can confirm/invalidate the idea that the morph maps are the entirety of the model?
    Last edited by jeric_synergy; 06-30-2018 at 05:55 PM.
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  5. #50
    Super Member Kryslin's Avatar
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    Maps -> General -> More, you'll find Cull Maps. It's native. It selects/deselects points below a certain threshold value, and can clear them from the map, if the correct option is chosen.
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  6. #51
    Axes grinder- Dongle #99
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    I Did Not Know That.

    Actually, I knew "CULL MAPS" existed, but I didn't know about the threshold parameter.
    They only call it 'class warfare' when we fight back.
    Praise to Buddha! #resist
    Chard's Credo-"Documentation is PART of the Interface"
    Film the cops. Always FILM THE COPS. Use this app.

  7. #52

    Perhaps the Modeler survey is a sign that NewTek's begun to recognize that potential for divergence and address it, or perhaps not.
    assume Modeler is the next update. in the year 2022.
    iow, who cares. we're beyond the point of caring / complaining i think.

    so, jump or drive

    i got grey beard now! 
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  8. #53
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post

    assume Modeler is the next update. in the year 2022.
    iow, who cares. we're beyond the point of caring / complaining i think.
    Speak for yourself. I do still care, and do not believe this whole "all complaints are just pointless negativity" mantra helps LW or NewTek in the least.
    John W.
    LW2015.3UB/2018.0.5 on MacPro(12C/24T/10.13.6),32GB RAM, NV 1080ti

  9. #54

    my reply might have come across as a bit harsh.

    i wish there was a dedicated list for >
    "most crucial Modeler / Layout fixes"

    i made one here for Modeler, but it's a bit all over...
    and does not include many tricks/features from other apps
    http://forums.newtek.com/archive/index.php/t-139159
    Last edited by erikals; 07-02-2018 at 12:36 AM.
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