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Thread: Annoyed by Lightwave 2018

  1. #1
    Registered User Aggi's Avatar
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    Annoyed by Lightwave 2018

    Hi there,

    is someone like me annoyed by Lightwave 2018?

    I build up a bunch of models (Star Trek) an I loaded the old scenes and objects into the new Lightwave 2018. The result:

    Surfaces changed
    Volumetric lights are gone
    Hypervoxels preferences and results changed
    Render preferences changed

    Ok, I said to me: Let's try to correct the surfaces and built up new volumtric lights. But everything I tried I can't get near to the old result. Maybe someone has a suggestion for me (see image)...

    Aggi (Georg Angelakis)

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Enterprise FlyBy 2018-01-11 3.0__024.jpg 
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    Old scene loaded in new Lightwave 2018. Lights are gone or have wrong intensity.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	VLights Test Render 2018.jpg 
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ID:	140065
    Here I tried to build up new VLights, but whatever I try I see the reflection of the Light on the model.
    Last edited by Aggi; 02-11-2018 at 11:04 AM.

  2. #2
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggi View Post
    Hi there,

    is someone like me annoyed by Lightwave 2018?

    I build up a bunch of models (Star Trek) an I loaded the old scenes and objects into the new Lightwave 2018. The result:

    Surfaces changed
    Volumetric lights are gone
    Hypervoxels preferences and results changed
    Render preferences changed

    Ok, I said to me: Let's try to correct the surfaces and built up new volumtric lights. But everything I tried I can't get near to the old result. Maybe someone has a suggestion for me (see image)...

    Aggi (Georg Angelakis)

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Enterprise FlyBy 2018-01-11 3.0__024.jpg 
Views:	468 
Size:	392.2 KB 
ID:	140063
    Old scene loaded in new Lightwave 2018. Lights are gone or have wrong intensity.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	VLights Test Render 2018.jpg 
Views:	352 
Size:	314.9 KB 
ID:	140065
    Here I tried to build up new VLights, but whatever I try I see the reflection of the Light on the model.
    You really need to be aware of what Lightwave 2018 has gone through..with respect to a new renderer, new surfaces, new lights...very different, you simply can not expect surfaces not to change, simple as that.
    Lights are completly new in 2018, thus do not excpect old scenes to produce the same output..you need to rework old scenes.

    It sounds you really arenīt aware of what has been going on these years with a very drastic change in Lightwave?

    volumetric lights ala old lightwave doesnīt exist anymore, you would have to rework any such type of light to work within the global scattering volumetric settings.

  3. #3
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggi View Post
    Hi there,

    is someone like me annoyed by Lightwave 2018?

    I build up a bunch of models (Star Trek) an I loaded the old scenes and objects into the new Lightwave 2018. The result:
    ...
    Volumetric lights are gone
    There appears to be a bug in LW2018.0.1 on Mac (possibly Windows as well, can't check atm), where even if marked as "Affect Volumetrics", lights won't actually generate volumetric effects unless "Intensity Falloff" is set to "Inv distance^2". If you set falloff to "Off", they just behave like regular lights.

    It's possible your lights are coming in with "Intensity Falloff" set to "Off", try changing to "Inv distance^2" and see if that causes them to re-appear. Also, if you're seeing the same broken behavior on Windows LW2018.0.1, please let me know.

    Hope this helps!
    John W.
    LW2015.3UB/2018.0.5 on MacPro(12C/24T/10.13.6),32GB RAM, NV 1080ti

  4. #4
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    volumetric lights ala old lightwave doesnīt exist anymore, you would have to rework any such type of light to work within the global scattering volumetric settings.
    Per-VLight scattering medium color/texture settings were an immensely powerful tool for VFX in LW. Limiting customers to a single scattering medium coloring/texturing scene-wide greatly reduces volumetric lights' utility and flexibility -- and that IS annoying.
    John W.
    LW2015.3UB/2018.0.5 on MacPro(12C/24T/10.13.6),32GB RAM, NV 1080ti

  5. #5
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwiede View Post
    Per-VLight scattering medium color/texture settings were an immensely powerful tool for VFX in LW. Limiting customers to a single scattering medium coloring/texturing scene-wide greatly reduces volumetric lights' utility and flexibility -- and that IS annoying.
    I agree on that one, mind you..the volumetri lights also had a sprite mode, which I often used for nebula gas in the backgrounds, I donīt think I can do that in the similar way, with such speed as it delivered.

  6. #6
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    The usual reply to this sort of question is just use 2015, esp. on facebook lw wiki. :P

    Maybe the old renderer will be added as an option in the render settings at some point?

  7. #7
    Man of many cells. shrox's Avatar
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    Well, contradicting my previous statement on another thread, I think I am going to wait on upgrading.
    shrox www.shrox.com
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  8. #8
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gar26lw View Post
    The usual reply to this sort of question is just use 2015, esp. on facebook lw wiki. :P

    Maybe the old renderer will be added as an option in the render settings at some point?
    Unfortunately, we have a lot of things broken or simply changed ..removed.
    Volumetric lights as they act now with gloal scattering is nice, but optional effect volumetric lights per light and sprites is something I still wanted to have, extremely fast and easy to set up volumetric gas nebs in 2015, simply not as fast and smooth to do now.

    went back to try a bit with lw 2015old hypervoxels, and actually using viper for preview hypertexture effects, viper seem all gone now, so that is a bit of missing as well, VPR doesnt refresh that fast and easy with a preveiw window play and replay, granted it may not be compared to full renderer, but I always though it was nice to try out various speed effects.

    to note is that we can not use the new volumetric on point clusters, it wonīt work on that, so you are left with either employing the old hypervoxels on that in 2018, the new primitive shapes with unlimited detail and such is nice, but you can not use that on point clusters either, you would have to instance them on particles, so any kind of point on terrain then trying to make rocks with them that way wont work on points, and these new primitive shape are extremely slow to render with GI on, sort of acceptable without it..but not with GI I think.

    new surface stuff is very nice, though they need to hook anisotropy with a premade projection, if I work with blender and principled bsdf, itīs working from scratch, if you are a product visualizer, 2018 may be for you though due to the nice surfacing and the new path tracer, though being a bit slow and noisy.
    Then again, blender seem equally equipped for product renders, equally nice and maybe faster with cycles and easier to control noise,for no cost at all
    I think Lighwave holds the upper hand though when it comes to light types and sampled lights and volumetric lights globally.

    I need to try out the old space jockey scene in lightwave 2015 64 bit, in 2018 the open gl movement when moving camera is very fast and smooth, so I will have to compare against 2015 and itīs performance.
    the new volumetric primitive is nice to some degree, more realistic shading and assymmetry, but on the otherhand...harder to set up textures for it, and the provided sample content shows small scale volumetrics, and I am beginning to suspect why that is, which is that it simply doesīt scale very well to more real to life sizing, not in quality and not with decent speed.

  9. #9
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shrox View Post
    Well, contradicting my previous statement on another thread, I think I am going to wait on upgrading.
    Probably me too, I will make some suggestions for them, and maybe follow what will happen to the next release, with the geo engine and intergration, new modeling tools or not, weight paint and visualistion or not, ui overhaul or not, some tabs are simply unreadable now, the node visualization is quite poor compared to blender or houdini, modo.

    plus up for the skin shader, prinipled shaders in general, and some of the lighting, but too much broken for my kind of liking.

  10. #10
    Super Member Chris S. (Fez)'s Avatar
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    Resources are limited and NewTek is headed in the right direction. Keep moving forward. Expand and optimize and simplify the new renderer. The new lighting and shading is superb.

  11. #11

    from what i read the part-rewrite was a Massive amount of work.

    LW2018 does have drawbacks here and there, still, it looks like lots of new fancy code was added.

    we'll just have to wait a bit for the final touches.

    personally i'm mostly interested in what took place "under the hood"
    hope to see modeling features in Layout soon.
    a start > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRCv4TakYQg
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  12. #12
    Man of many cells. shrox's Avatar
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    Don't worry, I'm not dating two 3d programs at the same time. I do have 3d mistress however. We both know what it is, nothing serious, I'm just using it for exporting to 3ds...

    There is a naughty joke in there somewhere, the parts are all there, you put it together.
    shrox www.shrox.com
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  13. #13
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    I agree on that one, mind you..the volumetri lights also had a sprite mode, which I often used for nebula gas in the backgrounds, I donīt think I can do that in the similar way, with such speed as it delivered.
    Yep, the VLight sprite mode was another very useful tool for VFX. I was kind of shocked, given how much LW is/was used in space stuff, to see how much the new engine limits VLights, all things considered. Sucks when you cannot easily use VLights as weapons fire, glowy stuff, etc. within the same scene (they typically relied on having different volumetric scattering medium settings for the different uses). Really don't get why they thought that particular limitation would be acceptable.
    John W.
    LW2015.3UB/2018.0.5 on MacPro(12C/24T/10.13.6),32GB RAM, NV 1080ti

  14. #14
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post
    hope to see modeling features in Layout soon.
    a start > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRCv4TakYQg
    Hardly, that's just point-level deformation. There was that SculptMesh demo plugin that could do the same in 2015 (and earlier, IIRC). Even the new plugin can only deform existing points, it still can't create or delete em (per DeformableMesh capabilities in SDK). It's a useful plugin, don't get me wrong, it appears to finally give a good method for producing pose-space corrective deformations -- but that was doable prior as well (somewhat anyway), the UX was just a lot less friendly.

    When/if SDK APIs for MutableMesh are exposed, then it'll be a "first step" towards viable modeling in Layout. Point-deformation of meshes in Layout is neither new, nor "modeling" in any practical sense.
    John W.
    LW2015.3UB/2018.0.5 on MacPro(12C/24T/10.13.6),32GB RAM, NV 1080ti

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by gar26lw View Post
    Maybe the old renderer will be added as an option in the render settings at some point?
    That's what I hope, and what I thought would be the case.

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