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Thread: 2018 - Vertex Normal Map

  1. #31
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    As a recent LW adopter, my solution to not having any way to modify normals in LW is just to use support loops, it works fine and isn't cumbersome to do. Using the inset in the N panel settings for the bevel tool for example.

  2. #32
    Kamehameha Chameleon BigHache's Avatar
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    Are you exporting out to a game engine though? If keeping within LW, your workflow should be just fine.

  3. #33
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    Should work in game engines as well, no reason it wouldn't.

  4. #34
    Super Member samurai_x's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Nilsson View Post
    Should work in game engines as well, no reason it wouldn't.
    So you import those models with support loops and actual bevels directly into a game engine?

  5. #35
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samurai_x View Post
    So you import those models with support loops and actual bevels directly into a game engine?
    Sure, and then just apply/activate subdivision on the model within the game engine, right?
    John W.
    LW2015.3UB/2018.0.5 on MacPro(12C/24T/10.13.6),32GB RAM, NV 1080ti

  6. #36
    Super Member samurai_x's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwiede View Post
    Sure, and then just apply/activate subdivision on the model within the game engine, right?
    shhhh..quiet...

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by samurai_x View Post
    So you import those models with support loops and actual bevels directly into a game engine?
    Yes! And no, you don't apply subdivision on it like Mr. Funny guy suggested.

    http://polycount.com/discussion/1546...rmals-tutorial this thread mentions both methods, it is a preference thing, or in LWs case, only one method available.
    Last edited by Morgan Nilsson; 01-13-2018 at 02:51 AM.

  8. #38
    Super Member samurai_x's Avatar
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    Ah you're talking about medium poly modelling workflow. I posted about it a while back. Learned from this guy.

    It has a certain look, Star Citizen pioneered it afaik.

    Haven't tried it in modeler because I still end up needing smoothing groups to fix shading errors like that yt video. How do you edit normals in modeler like this?

  9. #39
    Kamehameha Chameleon BigHache's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samurai_x View Post
    Haven't tried it in modeler because I still end up needing smoothing groups to fix shading errors like that yt video. How do you edit normals in modeler like this?
    This is the reason I started the thread. LW does not seem to have that functionality yet.

    OD Tool Set has Create Smoothing Groups, which provides a simple method with no UI to create a vertex normal map.
    However it seems you need LW 2018, which has an FBX exporter more recent than 2014, to get the information into an FBX.
    Last edited by BigHache; 01-14-2018 at 08:15 AM.

  10. #40
    If anyone is up for testing I have a beta here (win32/64, LW9.5+) of a smooth-group (to vertex normal map) plugin.

    The core algorithm is something I've been using in a propriety plugin for a couple of years. However I had a slightly different (more cumbersome not-fit-for-public-use) way to assign smooth groups than in this standalone plugin. I've been wanting to put it into a for-public-use plugin for quite a while, if I could make group assignments a bit more sane.

    If there are some volunteer testers and there aren't any reported issues, I'll put up on my plugin page (as a free plugin), but for now only the download link in this post exists.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myagi View Post
    If anyone is up for testing I have a beta here (win32/64, LW9.5+) of a smooth-group (to vertex normal map) plugin.

    The core algorithm is something I've been using in a propriety plugin for a couple of years. However I had a slightly different (more cumbersome not-fit-for-public-use) way to assign smooth groups than in this standalone plugin. I've been wanting to put it into a for-public-use plugin for quite a while, if I could make group assignments a bit more sane.

    If there are some volunteer testers and there aren't any reported issues, I'll put up on my plugin page (as a free plugin), but for now only the download link in this post exists.
    thanks. I will endeavor to give it a workout and get back to you with any findings

  12. #42
    Super Member samurai_x's Avatar
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    Will try to test it, too.

  13. #43
    Kamehameha Chameleon BigHache's Avatar
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    Thanks! Will test this out over the next couple of days.

  14. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Myagi View Post
    If anyone is up for testing I have a beta here (win32/64, LW9.5+) of a smooth-group (to vertex normal map) plugin.

    The core algorithm is something I've been using in a propriety plugin for a couple of years. However I had a slightly different (more cumbersome not-fit-for-public-use) way to assign smooth groups than in this standalone plugin. I've been wanting to put it into a for-public-use plugin for quite a while, if I could make group assignments a bit more sane.

    If there are some volunteer testers and there aren't any reported issues, I'll put up on my plugin page (as a free plugin), but for now only the download link in this post exists.
    Thank you. So many people wanted this in LightWave and you give it like that It need only more user friendly workflow/interface.

    My tests:
    - working in Modeler 2015.3 64bit
    - smoothing groups looking good in Layout 2015.3 64bit
    - saving and loading good from *.lwo
    - NOT working in Unity 2017.2 when object exported as FBX201400 from Layout 2015.3

    - working in Modeler 2018.0.1 64bit
    - smoothing groups looking good in Layout 2018.0.1 64bit
    - saving and loading good from *.lwo
    - WORKING in Unity 2017.2 when object exported as FBX201600 from Layout 2018.0.1 - with turned OFF Smoothing Groups and Unity 3D Mode in exporter
    - WORKING in Unity 2017.2 when object exported as FBX201600 from Layout 2018.0.1 - with turned ON Smoothing Groups and Unity 3D Mode in exporter

    - WORKING udno/redo

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by MarcusM; 01-18-2018 at 03:33 AM.

  15. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusM View Post
    It need only more user friendly workflow/interface.
    Polishing the UI code, mac version, adding some PDF or html doc with images to describe the passive group feature in a more digestible form and maybe add some more tools (based on ideas I have and/or suggestions) is certainly on the table. I had to restrain myself and first see if it works as it should and if anyone is interested, before putting more time into it.

    Was there anything in particular you had in mind? The basic concept of the group buttons, similar to 3ds, would presumably remain the same. Stuff that right now I know are iffy are for example things like button drawing/looks, because I was forced to use the legacy LW Panel API in the SDK, and that the window position isn't remembered (I think).

    - NOT working in Unity 2017.2 when object exported as FBX201400 from Layout 2015.3

    - WORKING in Unity 2017.2 when object exported as FBX201600 from Layout 2018.0.1 - with turned OFF Smoothing Groups and Unity 3D Mode in exporter
    - WORKING in Unity 2017.2 when object exported as FBX201600 from Layout 2018.0.1 - with turned ON Smoothing Groups and Unity 3D Mode in exporter
    Those results are what I was expecting based on BigHache's findings earlier in this thread. The FBX exporter has to support Vertex Normal maps. Any exporter that takes vnormal maps into account should in theory work fine, as the smooth group assignments are only relevant during vnormal generation for this plugin.

    (Disclaimer: I'm not familiar with what's inside the FBX format, so I don't know how and what gets exported there.)

    Thanks for testing.
    Last edited by Myagi; 01-18-2018 at 03:20 AM.

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