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Thread: LightWave 2018 Announcement - Discussion Thread

  1. #751
    Eat your peas. Greenlaw's Avatar
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    Here's another tip: If VPR seems slow, try disabling Mouse Refinement. According to the docs, this mode can affect VPR rendering peformance for complex scenes.

  2. #752
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenlaw View Post
    Here's another tip: If VPR seems slow, try disabling Mouse Refinement. According to the docs, this mode can affect VPR rendering peformance for complex scenes.
    Just tried with the nymh_materials scene, doesnīt seem to make any difference with turning mouse refinement off, still very slow, and I am also having a hard time seeing draft beeing much faster than with it turned off, another note, wouldnīt it be more user friendly and make more sense to place such option also as an option in the vpr settings?

  3. #753
    Eat your peas. Greenlaw's Avatar
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    Are you viewing full screen? I normally display in quad view and limit VPR to just one display. Also, I use limited region if I'm seeing extraordinary slow-down. (FYI, I'm now referring mainly to 2015 experience...my 'practical production' experience with 2018 is still pretty limited.)

  4. #754
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenlaw View Post
    Are you viewing full screen? I normally display in quad view and limit VPR to just one display. Also, I use limited region if I'm seeing extraordinary slow-down. (FYI, I'm now referring mainly to 2015 experience...my 'practical production' experience with 2018 is still pretty limited.)
    Quite often so..well not full screen, standard menus top left and bottom, but often full viewport..depends on scene complexity or if using volumetrics, always worked great in Lightwave 2015..and a Huge part of why I liked the VPR in 2015 and itīs great speed..I really havenīt come across any other software that refines itīs previewer so fast..In full viewport as Lightwave, so this change is a bit of annoyance ..though I understand the need for more up to date materials and lighting.
    checking back on blender with cycles, simple scenes like ball and box sunlight and global illumination, cycles quite a bit faster I think than Lightwave, but to difficult to say for sure...at least with default settings it performs like that.

    Limited region I sort of never use nowadays since 2015 was so fast in vpr I think, but 2018 then seem to introduce the need for it again.

  5. #755
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Just noticed, brute force settings GI, 1 ray ..and it will be noisy and iterate slow...raising the values, and suddenly much faster..for a simple scene that is, the nymph material doesnīt seem to work that way, but more complex with the sigma material.
    And of course..that scene itself is heavy with env light.

  6. #756
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    Quote Originally Posted by jboudreau View Post
    I couldn't agree more

    On that note it's great that we don't have the down falls of the previous VPR because at least what you see in VPR is going to be what you see in the final render.
    We also have half resolution and draft mode, but I understand what you are saying

    Thanks,
    Jason
    there should be a "draft view" that goes really fast and will not be exact copy of the final render and a "final render" mode to be exact replica to allow for some flexibility. Didn't check the demo yet

  7. #757
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    Quote Originally Posted by unplug_2k2 View Post
    there should be a "draft view" that goes really fast and will not be exact copy of the final render and a "final render" mode to be exact replica to allow for some flexibility. Didn't check the demo yet
    and it should be progressive refinement with mouse wheel zoom. Basically Fprime 2018!

    BTW, VPR should have a button in the interface. Pressing it opens a new scene window with VPR running, like Fprime
    Last edited by gar26lw; 01-10-2018 at 05:02 PM.

  8. #758
    Super Member Snosrap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unplug_2k2 View Post
    there should be a "draft view" that goes really fast and will not be exact copy of the final render and a "final render" mode to be exact replica to allow for some flexibility. Didn't check the demo yet
    I'm not crazy about that idea. Isn't that the point of VPR - to see what you are going to get before you commit. I think with more refinement the devs give to the engine it will improve, plus processors seem to be getting faster. Go out and get Item Focus from Even Flow, it's a free plugin that toggles "focus" off and on any object so you can focus on that object while setting up a scene. Great for large scenes.
    Last edited by Snosrap; 01-10-2018 at 06:22 PM.

  9. #759
    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    Just noticed, brute force settings GI, 1 ray ..and it will be noisy and iterate slow...raising the values, and suddenly much faster...
    This bothers me as well. What is the logic behind this?

  10. #760
    I also noticed zero and non zero value(even 0.1) of Roughness drastically changes GI indirect diffuse in BSDF. Does this have something to do with Fresnel?

  11. #761
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snosrap View Post
    I'm not crazy about that idea. Isn't that the point of VPR - to see what you are going to get before you commit. I think with more refinement the devs give to the engine it will improve, plus processors seem to be getting faster. Go out and get Item Focus from Even Flow, it's a free plugin that toggles "focus" off and on any object so you can focus on that object while setting up a scene. Great for large scenes.
    or just start using something else.

    2018 has taken a real step back in ease of use and fast results. two hallmarks of lightwave.
    unified sampling and render, light and gi settings in one place made 2015 great for usability and fast turnaround.

    imho. the team needs to get things back to where they were in 2015, with the new quality of 2018.
    maybe a hard ask but a nessesity. right now, the render can be all the arnold it wants to be, speed and ease of use matter. imho for short deadlines and quick results, it’s 2015 and modo.

    i should , with a single object, i get massive slowdown. more complex scenes seem unaffected or similar to 2015. so what can be done for speeding up simple stuff?
    Last edited by gar26lw; 01-11-2018 at 08:35 AM.

  12. #762
    Look at that window mess. You have to hide it and open it again to bring it to front. Wow.

  13. #763
    Quote Originally Posted by VermilionCat View Post
    This bothers me as well. What is the logic behind this?
    This makes sense and this is also valid for the Min Samples count of the Adaptive Sampler, you will generally get faster rendering by setting it to 4 or even 8 rather than 1.

    The logic behind this is the amount of work the sampler has to accomplish to reach your Adaptive Sampling Threshold request.

    If you set very low samples count for a start, then the sampler has to first render very few samples across a large pixel area then check the contrast of these samples against your Threshold request. Then it will decide to fire or not more samples. This checking/deciding/refire cycle has a cost.

    If you set more samples count for a start, then the sampler will fire more samples in one go without checking anything. Then time comes to check the contrast of all these samples against your Threshold request, but a lot more samples are already present and there is a better chance that the contrast between all these samples is already lower than your Threshold request. Even if not, then the checking/deciding/refire cycle would have been avoided for several (4,8,..) cycles, which is non negligible.
    Last edited by grabiller; 01-12-2018 at 03:51 AM.
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  14. #764
    Whoa... how do you know all this?? Is this documented somewhere? Anyway thanks for great info! I believe a lot of people get confused with this.

    Edit--

    The default value should be set to 4 then?
    Last edited by VermilionCat; 01-13-2018 at 04:08 AM.

  15. #765
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    New build out (2018.0.1) in your accounts.
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