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Thread: NDI experience at large university

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    NDI experience at large university

    I wanted to briefly convey my recent experience trying to deploy NDI at a large university (rhymes with Stanford).

    The sports video department is very enthusiastic about NDI conceptually, though they had no prior awareness of the capability. They instinctively embrace the notion that fewer wires is very desirable. However, NDI doesn't work on their internal network and the video group doesn't know why. Lacking any tools to diagnose the network problem, they went with their traditional setup and workflow for the day's athletic event. I noted that Apple Airplay worked fine on the same network.

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    Registered User spaulsen's Avatar
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    Hi jtm57,

    Generally I've found that NDI is easily implemented on standard 1GB Ethernet networks, it just works. But, without knowing their setup and workflow its hard to say why they experienced an issue and what the possible resolution may be. Here's an example of a recent university implementing NDI within their production.

    https://www.newtek.com/blog/2017/10/...sting-network/

    Regards,
    Steve
    Sr. Director, Marketing Services
    NewTek
    San Antonio, TX

  3. #3
    There is a technical document that gives you information on the NDI, give this to your IT dept so they can make sure the networking is blocking traffic.
    https://233b1d13b450eb6b33b4-ac2a332...ical-brief.pdf

    When you say it didn't work there is a lot of room for interpretation. Did NDI channels appear for you to try to connect to? Did it try to connect, but got nothing? Or was the video having performance issues?

    As Steve mentions above, a lot more about your network is needed.
    Kane Peterson
    Key Accounts Sales Engineer
    NewTek, Inc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spaulsen View Post
    Hi jtm57,

    Generally I've found that NDI is easily implemented on standard 1GB Ethernet networks, it just works. But, without knowing their setup and workflow its hard to say why they experienced an issue and what the possible resolution may be. Here's an example of a recent university implementing NDI within their production.

    https://www.newtek.com/blog/2017/10/...sting-network/

    Regards,
    Steve
    Yes, I've chatted with Imry. In Stanford's case, bandwidth isn't an issue -- the NDI stream we're working with is very low bit rate. NDI is somehow getting filtered, perhaps at the end point or in the network.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kanep View Post
    There is a technical document that gives you information on the NDI, give this to your IT dept so they can make sure the networking is blocking traffic.
    https://233b1d13b450eb6b33b4-ac2a332...ical-brief.pdf

    When you say it didn't work there is a lot of room for interpretation. Did NDI channels appear for you to try to connect to? Did it try to connect, but got nothing? Or was the video having performance issues?

    As Steve mentions above, a lot more about your network is needed.
    The NDI channels didn't appear. Can't say what the issue is and perhaps Stanford IT will figure it out. It's a challenge, though. The video group has their levers and expertise which, in this case, doesn't include network diagnostics and configuration.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kanep View Post
    There is a technical document that gives you information on the NDI, give this to your IT dept so they can make sure the networking is blocking traffic.
    https://233b1d13b450eb6b33b4-ac2a332...ical-brief.pdf

    When you say it didn't work there is a lot of room for interpretation. Did NDI channels appear for you to try to connect to? Did it try to connect, but got nothing? Or was the video having performance issues?

    As Steve mentions above, a lot more about your network is needed.
    Forgot: thanks much for the document. I'll pass that along.

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    Do you know if all of the devices are on the same subnet? If they are on separate subnets most networks block mDNS broadcasts between switches. Using NDI access manager you can manually enter the IP address of the sending device to the receiving device and it will connect without mDNS.
    Zane Condren
    Product and Vertical Market Manager - Digital Broadcast
    NewTek Inc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zane Condren View Post
    Do you know if all of the devices are on the same subnet? If they are on separate subnets most networks block mDNS broadcasts between switches. Using NDI access manager you can manually enter the IP address of the sending device to the receiving device and it will connect without mDNS.
    Yes, IT says same subnet.

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    Have you tried using access manager? Sometimes, even within the same subnet, there's some discovery issues. I have found NDI Access Manager to take care of those issues.

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    No, haven’t tried that. The opportunity has passed. I noticed that Airplay found Apple TVs on this network. I wondered why NDI discovery wasn’t as robust as it appears to use the same sort of protocol as Airplay.

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    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Your IT guys probably opened the ports that AirPlay requires, while limiting others they thought were not needed.
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    Another NDI fail tonight, this time on a high school Wifi network. Airplay worked fine, NDI didn't. Suggest that a design goal for the NDI protocol is to be as robust as the Airplay protocol as they share very similar data and discovery functionality. Either that or better tools for diagnosing discovery and transport issues.

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    Registered User spaulsen's Avatar
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    NDI is designed for standard Ethernet networks and not wifi. NDI will work over a wireless network but depending on the bandwidth available and video being transported. NDI|HX is optimized for use on wifi however and products like the Connect Spark work very well on transporting signal over wifi.
    Sr. Director, Marketing Services
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtm57 View Post
    Another NDI fail tonight, this time on a high school Wifi network. Airplay worked fine, NDI didn't. Suggest that a design goal for the NDI protocol is to be as robust as the Airplay protocol as they share very similar data and discovery functionality. Either that or better tools for diagnosing discovery and transport issues.
    The consistent failure at this site across different network tends to point more towards a systemic problem with overly exercised network restrictions.

    NDI generally works great, right out of the box. You generally have to do quite a bit of work to stop it working, and I suspect that is exactly what is going on.

    Most likely the overly zealous IT folks would need to back off a little and undo some of the network restrictions.

    More than likely they have done that for AirPlay but not for NDI - yielding the situation you describe. its probably not a fault with NDI.

    Using NDI Access will effectively eliminate a dependance on Bonjour (mDNS) and may be your solution, but requires explicit setup and it doesn't currently work (in both directions) on Mac and Linux.
    Last edited by livepad; 01-12-2018 at 02:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spaulsen View Post
    NDI is designed for standard Ethernet networks and not wifi. NDI will work over a wireless network but depending on the bandwidth available and video being transported. NDI|HX is optimized for use on wifi however and products like the Connect Spark work very well on transporting signal over wifi.
    Yes, I've heard that before. In this particular case, bandwidth isn't an issue -- it's the discovery protocol that fails. All of the NDI senders are low bit rate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by livepad View Post
    The consistent failure at this site across different network tends to point more towards a systemic problem with overly exercised network restrictions.

    NDI generally works great, right out of the box. You generally have to do quite a bit of work to stop it working, and I suspect that is exactly what is going on.

    Most likely the overly zealous IT folks would need to back off a little and undo some of the network restrictions.

    More than likely they have done that for AirPlay but not for NDI - yielding the situation you describe. its probably not a fault with NDI.

    Using NDI Access will effectively eliminate a dependance on Bonjour (mDNS) and may be your solution, but requires explicit setup and it doesn't currently work (in both directions) on Mac and Linux.
    Overzealous is a judgement that I can't make without more data. In our four installations we've had four discovery failures so what might be viewed as network administration run amok might just be par for the course. The networking folks at this high school site will take a deep dive into why the NDI discovery is failing and I'm looking forward to that investigation.

    Our experience is not that NDI works out of the box though I understand that others have had a higher success rate. Better diagnostic tools would be helpful.

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