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Thread: How do we communicate to Camera's using NDI???

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    How do we communicate to Camera's using NDI???

    Can anyone suggest a solution to be able to talk to camera people using NDI? We have a control room too far away from our wireless communication system and too far to run XLR cable for a cabled communication system. What should we do except for using phones on a conference call?

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    Hmmm.
    This may be a really ugly solution, but if you have the pieces or are willing to spend the money, it would work. (I am assuming both locations are connected to the same LAN)

    On Tricaster side, set up a camera with embedded audio that focuses on the technical director (or whomever you have issuing commands). This camera and it's audio will be imput into the tricaster, but you will never switch to it for your program out and you will not route it's audio to any output.

    (if you have an NDI camera, or an NDI Spark, you can bypass connecting the camera to the tricaster. Just plug the camera and it's mic into the network and you are good).

    On the side of your set where you are filming, set up a laptop with NDI studio monitor. since you are running the camera and its audio into the tricaster, the tricaster should already be converting it into an NDI source on the network (i'll have to double check this, worst case scenario, you'll put the camera and its audio into an ME that hogs one of your NDI outputs). You now have video and audio feeding from you in the control room, to anywhere at your facility that is on the LAN.

    If you need audio from your camera crew to the set, you can simply reverse the process by using an extra NDI camera or camera connected to an NDI spark for the purpose of sending audio the other direction. Or if you are using cameras with multiple embedded channels of audio, consider using one channel for audio communication to the technical director, and the other channel for sending audio of the talent or nat sound. You can configure your tricaster to separate the two channels and feed them only to where they need to go.

    At this point you have bi-directional communication between your control room and your camera crew. Its ugly, but it will work.

  3. #3
    Registered User Red Dog Records's Avatar
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    Jef at Pizazz has an NDI solution with builtin IP comms compatability.
    http://www.pizazz.com/ndi-solutions/


    Andrew
    Tricaster 460AE3 + LC-11
    Flypack: Router, switch, backup encoders, captioning devices, audio mixer, UPS, etc
    Cameras: Sony Z280, Z150, Spark & Bird Dog converters
    http://reddogrecords.com

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    Jeff's stuff looks very interesting.

    I was going to suggest using an Intel NUC (or similar micro PC). Conceivably you could bypass the entire TriCaster portion of the system and merely send and receive audio using NDI peer-to-peer. One thing that would be very cool is that you also would have a potential two-head monitor at each NUC, as well, that you could use for either camera or program video and a second channel that might be for a prompter. Obviously, if the NUC would be a "beltpack" use, I'd get it with an SSD for ultimate portability. The headset would merely be a USB headset, like a Jabra or Logitech model.

    NUC's, or their equivalent, are running around $300-$400 or so. But, you could also get a low-end laptop too, if that makes more sense.

    Let us know how your experimentation in this goes.

    Fritz Golman
    Museum of Broadcast Communications

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    While we don't handle it this way anymore it worked well at the time and was completely over NDI. Under this method the remote location can listen and talk back. Talk back is however fed to a studio monitor to avoid a loopback or small delay.

    -Partyline intercom line dried and fed into control room Tricaster over SDI line. The Dry intercom line is important.
    -Whichever input you feed into Tricaster this audio routing. In our case we used an audio to SDI embedder and fed Program Audio, IFB and Comms over embedded channels on the SDI input

    -On remote side select the input from control room Tricaster that is carrying audio signals.
    -Route the audio sources respectively using Aux's.
    -Program audio assigned to Master, IFB to talent (Aux 1), Comms to a second partyline base station (Aux 2) once again insuring that the line is delivered dry!

    -Audio to SDI embedded on remote side used and fed to Tricaster as 4 SDI channels- PxP, Color, Talkback, Return Comms.
    -On control room side Select the source that is carrying audio feeds.
    -Either utilize an SDI output with Audio Dembedder or Aux outs to feed audio board and Studio monitor for Intercom talkback.

    This worked very well in our usage. For a while it was a cheap and effective method to get it done!

  6. #6
    Almost everybody uses a good smartphone (iOS or Android), so try unityintercom.com using smartphones and Eartec headsets (http://eartec.com/Headsets/wiredheadsets.html).
    Unityintercom has an option called unitycloud with single event for $48 per week for 5 total users. It's a good option to test the system.

    You can use with wifi or 3G/4G connections.

    Sorry. I just saw that you don't want to use phones... the other option is to use Dante Protocol using the same network that you use for NDI. There are good small mixers with Dante and for the camera operators you can use this: http://www.studio-tech.com/product_m5205.html
    Or this system:
    http://www.studio-tech.com/product_m215.html
    https://www.audinate.com/products/da...ercom-beltpack
    Last edited by Koinonia; 10-21-2017 at 08:02 PM.
    Daniel Choi
    Tricaster 460 AE2 - Tricaster 855 - Tricaster 455

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    ClearCom has a relatively inexpensive intercom over IP solution that integrates easily with any existing intercom systems that already exist in your control room (RTS or ClearCom).

    http://www.clearcom.com/product/icon...-series/lq-2w2

    We have this box in our two control rooms, exec studio, and remote venues across the corporate campus.

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    I know NDI is still a relatively new solution but if the spark or something else could evolve to carry Tally, Return and Comm back from the Tricaster that would be awesome. Especially if the converter box could also be powered through POE. I know that is a lot to ask but it would really close the gap between Tricaster productions and traditional 53ft trucks.

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    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Just to let you know, Spark does support Tally (using LEDs on the connector side of the box).
    --
    Regards, Steve
    Forum Moderator
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    Steve would there be anyway to convert that to say a cable that you could have placed near a camera ops monitor? I know the rule for you guys is not to comment on future things, but is there anything to say having some comm and return features in the future would be technically capable with NDI?

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    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    NDI is capable of pretty much anything relevant that you can think of. I can't speak to our plans in this respect, as you know, but it seems inevitable to me that someone will do comms over NDI sooner or later.
    --
    Regards, Steve
    Forum Moderator
    ("You've got to ask yourself one question ... 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya, spammer?")

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radio_TVPat1982 View Post
    Steve would there be anyway to convert that to say a cable that you could have placed near a camera ops monitor? I know the rule for you guys is not to comment on future things, but is there anything to say having some comm and return features in the future would be technically capable with NDI?
    Don't be surprised if by this time next year or even as soon as NAB Las Vegas, Newtek or a 3rd party unveils a device that mounts to the back of a camera or a rig with SDI/HDMI in to NDI out, Tally, NDI Return, and Comm all over LAN IP. It's definitely a possibility.

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    Quote Originally Posted by m_covert View Post
    Don't be surprised if by this time next year or even as soon as NAB Las Vegas, Newtek or a 3rd party unveils a device that mounts to the back of a camera or a rig with SDI/HDMI in to NDI out, Tally, NDI Return, and Comm all over LAN IP. It's definitely a possibility.
    Yes! That is exactly what I am waiting for. Tally does not bother me that much but Comms and even return would be great to have in a one cable solution. I just watched a school pay such a unreal amount of money on a complete fiber setup that runs everything including comms, tally, and return in a single cable. I thought man, I just know NDI can do that eventually for like 10% of the cost.

    A tech from the same school told me he had heard of IP video but never even considered it. He did admit the next control room they build (in 2 years) will likely be IP and not fiber.

  14. #14
    NewTek System Integrator PIZAZZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by m_covert View Post
    Don't be surprised if by this time next year or even as soon as NAB Las Vegas, Newtek or a 3rd party unveils a device that mounts to the back of a camera or a rig with SDI/HDMI in to NDI out, Tally, NDI Return, and Comm all over LAN IP. It's definitely a possibility.
    Or maybe it happened already... http://www.pizazz.com/ndi-solutions/
    Maybe you missed it?

    NDI Viewfinder – $4995 shipping now
    NDI-Viewfinder is a single channel HD-SDI to NDI converter with a built in 12in. LCD touchscreen display of the camera input.
    Mount this unit on your camera in a studio setup and it becomes your video to NDI converter along with a viewfinder/monitor of what you are shooting. Plug in your communications headset and you have a complete full featured camera solution. Tally displayed on the monitor when you are live or in preview when used in conjunction with a NewTek TriCaster or IP series product.
    Key Features:
    View your video feed on the built in 12 inch LCD monitor.
    Secondary NDI monitor overlay from the switcher PGM return.
    Comms over IP capability included:
    Comms Options include VCOM, Unity, Dante, or NDI Audio integration
    Headset can be a 4pin or 5pin depending on application
    Tally onscreen when Live with a TriCaster
    Locking EtherCon network connection
    Locking 4Pin 12volt DC power connection
    USB connector for charging your smart phone and additional control options
    100×100 VESA mounting holes on back to attach the unit to a variety of mounting solutions
    Networking and Setup is all performed with the built in touchscreen user interface
    Built in 4+ hour battery
    Dimensions : 8.5″ x 13″x 1.75″

    Jef Kethley
    PIZAZZ
    www.pizazz.com

    Using:
    All models of TriCasters + 3Play, IPSeries
    Panasonic UB300 4k cams
    Tactical Fiber/converters, SDI2NDI converters, NDI-Viewfinder, and NDI2HDMI

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    Jef I did not realize this thing could do as much as you listed. Can you explain a little more the process to get setup comm, tally, and return through the Tricaster?

    For example how do you split what hits air and stays in the background to the camera men and production crew? Would this be possible with a MINI or require a machine with a lot more audio inputs/outputs?

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