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Thread: Spark HDMI signal delay/lag

  1. #1
    Registered User scaught101's Avatar
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    Spark HDMI signal delay/lag

    Greetings, all.

    We have an HDMI Spark. Works pretty well but are seeing a 250ms delay between live and the ndi feed. Seems WAY too long. What types of delays are others seeing and if less (which i expect is the case for most folks), what, if any, tweeks were made to reduce the lag?

    This delay is happening on a private, 5g network.
    ---
    Scott Whitney
    www.PodWorx.com (Company)
    www.VegasVideoNetwork.com (Online Broadcasting Network)

  2. #2
    If you can go wired, that will always give you the lowest latency.

    As for WiFi, what kind of access point do you have? Does it have multiple antennas? It is the access point multi-band? What is the maximum speed (n or ac)? Do you have lots of other wireless devices on the network or is there lots of WiFi activity in the area (even if it isn't on your access point)? Are all devices on the access point running at the same speed or do you have some devices running at lower speeds (like g)?

    Here is a great article that talks about WiFi, why it might not be as fast as you think and what you might be able to do about it.
    https://www.cnet.com/how-to/your-rou...-is-heres-why/
    Kane Peterson
    Key Accounts Sales Engineer
    NewTek, Inc.

  3. #3
    Registered User scaught101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kanep View Post
    If you can go wired, that will always give you the lowest latency.

    As for WiFi, what kind of access point do you have? Does it have multiple antennas? It is the access point multi-band? What is the maximum speed (n or ac)? Do you have lots of other wireless devices on the network or is there lots of WiFi activity in the area (even if it isn't on your access point)? Are all devices on the access point running at the same speed or do you have some devices running at lower speeds (like g)?

    Here is a great article that talks about WiFi, why it might not be as fast as you think and what you might be able to do about it.
    https://www.cnet.com/how-to/your-rou...-is-heres-why/
    Hey, Kane. What is Newtek's spec for wireless delay for the Spark?

    In answer to your questions:

    Using an ASUS RT-AC88U Wireless-AC3100 Dual Band Gigabit Router. Four antenna. Dual band. Max speed: 3167 Mbp. The spark was the only wireless device on the router. There were also three PTZ cams with wired ethernet used for PTZ control (up, down, left, right, zoom). There was one wifi network in area. Worked the same regardless of the number of wifi networks close by.
    ---
    Scott Whitney
    www.PodWorx.com (Company)
    www.VegasVideoNetwork.com (Online Broadcasting Network)

  4. #4
    I don't have any numbers myself, I think it can vary based on access points and network conditions. In a test I did at home using a wired connection, the latency I measured was 89ms. Something else is what video format are you using? Higher frame rates can help get lower latency.
    Kane Peterson
    Key Accounts Sales Engineer
    NewTek, Inc.

  5. #5
    Registered User scaught101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kanep View Post
    I don't have any numbers myself, I think it can vary based on access points and network conditions. In a test I did at home using a wired connection, the latency I measured was 89ms. Something else is what video format are you using? Higher frame rates can help get lower latency.
    1280x720 30fps
    ---
    Scott Whitney
    www.PodWorx.com (Company)
    www.VegasVideoNetwork.com (Online Broadcasting Network)

  6. #6
    In my test with the 89ms on a wired connection, I was running 1920x1080 59.94fps input into the Spark.
    Kane Peterson
    Key Accounts Sales Engineer
    NewTek, Inc.

  7. #7
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    mmhhh...

    today we got our connect spark hdmi. Grabbing the signal on a pc and i have ~ 1 second delay on a wired connecion... any idea or help?

    Thx and greetings

    Christian

  8. #8
    NewTek Engineering ACross's Avatar
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    Christian,

    If you are seeing 1 second delay this is very much not what is expected. Obviously I do not know how you have this configured, and so my general advice would be to make sure that you have the latest NDI|HX drivers and firmware installed. If you still see a problem then contact our support and we will help work out what the issue is.

    Andrew

  9. #9
    2005 NewTek Demo Guru
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    Just tested with an HDMI Spark with wired LAN connection on a Mini running standard edition 2-6-170817. NDI through Spark is at 250ms, and HDMI straight into the Tricaster is at 150ms. Spark is on the latest firmware (0404) and the source is a GoPro Hero 4 Silver in 720P.
    Jonathan Crowe
    ETV Engineer
    www.etvhuntsville.com

  10. #10
    NewTek Engineering ACross's Avatar
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    Jonathan,

    Feel free to contact out support (or email me) if you want some help with this. Note that even your HDMI figure is very high (the TC latency is just 2-3 frames based on frame-sync timing relationship between input and output) so I strongly suspect that your figure includes camera and display latency (which is hard to rule out in a test).

    Andrew

  11. #11
    2005 NewTek Demo Guru
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    Let me point out my measurement test. A stopwatch was placed next to the Tricaster interface monitor. The GoPro was positioned so that the actual stopwatch was visible as well as the camera shot of the stopwatch in the program output window. Examining the recording, the shot in the program output monitor was behind the actual stopwatch. Using NDI through the Spark it was 250ms behind, and straight into the Mini it was 150ms behind. You are correct in that this may be a result of the display itself.
    Jonathan Crowe
    ETV Engineer
    www.etvhuntsville.com

  12. #12
    NewTek Engineering ACross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonCrowe View Post
    Let me point out my measurement test. A stopwatch was placed next to the Tricaster interface monitor. The GoPro was positioned so that the actual stopwatch was visible as well as the camera shot of the stopwatch in the program output window. Examining the recording, the shot in the program output monitor was behind the actual stopwatch. Using NDI through the Spark it was 250ms behind, and straight into the Mini it was 150ms behind. You are correct in that this may be a result of the display itself.
    The problem here is that you are measuring the latency as follows

    1) GoPro -> HDMI (the GoPro has some latency that is not insignificant)
    2) HDMI -> TC MINI -> HDMI
    3) HDMI -> Display out (most displays have some latency)

    I strongly suspect that (1) + (2) is about 100ms of latency for you (because I know for a fact that TC has two frame latency). I suspect that most of this is the GoPro though. No matter what, your comparison of Spark to HDMI latency is correct because (1) and (3) is in both situations and the reason I bring up the latency figures above is that your real additional latency that is introduced by Spark is about 100ms which is not that far removed from the numbers above. Given that the frame-rate of the GoPro on HDMI is 1080p30, you are probably seeing about 3 extra frames of latency (3x33ms = 99ms) which is about right. Do feel free to email me if there is anything at all I can help with or questions I can answer.

    Andrew

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