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Thread: New pricing model...

  1. #1
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    New pricing model...

    Just read the newly-announced pricing model, per this LW3DG offer:

    With our next release the new pricing program for LightWave will be:
    • LightWave Special Upgrade Price from a Current Version - $295 (USD)
    • LightWave Regular Upgrade Price from a Non-Current Version - $795 (USD)
    • LightWave Full License Price - $1195
    I have no doubts the zealots will have no problems with any of it, but what about the opinions of the rest?

    I give LW3DG thumbs up on handling for charter/post-charter folks short-term, long-term ofc. depends on whether this latest pricing really "persists". At least they're finally being realistic and no longer penalizing charter/post-charter folks, which is a good step, IMO.
    Last edited by jwiede; 09-25-2015 at 08:05 PM.
    John W.
    LW2015.3UB/2018.0.7 on MacPro(12C/24T/10.13.6),32GB RAM, NV 980ti

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by jwiede View Post

    I give LW3DG thumbs up on handling for charter/post-charter folks short-term...
    Yep, can't say they're not trying. I'm curious as well if this is a one-time offer or new pricing for charter people.
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  3. #3
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ernpchan View Post
    I'm curious as well if this is a one-time offer or new pricing for charter people.
    The email refers to the web posting, apparently referring to the text I quoted in the post I quoted.

    Given charter/post-charter are required to stay current, and staying current yields a $295 upgrade price in future release(s) for any current license holders, there effectively isn't any reason for charter/post-charter anymore. The only thing that would meaningfully change that would be if they went back to pricing where upgrades potentially cost >$395/$495 -- not impossible, hence my comment about whether pricing "persists", as lately LW3DG pricing models' longevity has been quite limited.

    Short-term, a good step, longer-term, who knows. How they handle LW2016* will tell MUCH more about LW3DG's future than this, though, I suspect.

    *: The latest offer did rather clearly imply the next version would release very soon. That, in turn, strongly hints LW3DG is now functioning on an annual release model -- time will tell whether LW3DG can produce enough to justify a $295 annual upgrade cost, I definitely have some doubts there.

    Hmm, I also seem to recall a bunch of highly-LW3DG-devoted folks recently denigrating The Foundry over modo's annual upgrade cycle. I wonder how they'll put a positive spin on LW3DG moving to the same cycle?
    Last edited by jwiede; 09-25-2015 at 08:36 PM.
    John W.
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  4. #4
    Often Banned Megalodon2.0's Avatar
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    So let me get this straight...

    When this begins, Lightwave will no longer have their incredible upgrade system where you can upgrade from any version for the same price?

    And the upgrade price will then be close to 70% of the full retail price for anyone more than one version back?

    If this is the case - and I hope I'm wrong - then LW3DG keeps going further down the tubes - IMO.

    Looks like I'll be selling MOST of my licenses since they would cost me FAR more to upgrade them than they are worth.
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  5. #5
    President, the LightWave Group robpowers3d's Avatar
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    Megalodon,

    if you stay current by taking advantage of this current offer of $395 for the upgrade to LightWave 2015 (If you haven't already) then you have a really great future upgrade price of $295 starting with the next version release of the software when our pricing plan changes. I feel strongly that this is an amazing deal and we really do want to reward our customers that support us by staying current with the releases. We especially wanted to reward our charter and post-charter members by making this offer available to them immediately.
    Rob Powers

    President, NewTek LightWave 3D Group
    Burbank, CA

  6. #6
    President, the LightWave Group robpowers3d's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ernpchan View Post
    Yep, can't say they're not trying. I'm curious as well if this is a one-time offer or new pricing for charter people.
    Hi Ernest,
    The plan is that this will be ongoing upgrade price for those of you that stay current starting with the next major release of LightWave and trust me, that is a release that you don't want to miss out on, when I say it will begin a new era for LightWave innovation I am serious about that. More details will be coming in the next few weeks. The decision to take advantage of our current offer is really up to each individual but I personally think that rewarding those that support our development so much through staying current is a great way to say thank you.
    Rob Powers

    President, NewTek LightWave 3D Group
    Burbank, CA

  7. #7
    Often Banned Megalodon2.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robpowers3d View Post
    Megalodon,

    if you stay current by taking advantage of this current offer of $395 for an upgrade then you have a really great future upgrade price of $295 starting with the next version release of the software when our pricing plan changes. I feel strongly that this is an amazing deal and we really do want to reward our customers that support us by staying current with the releases. We especially wanted to reward our charter and post-charter members by making this offer available to them immediately.
    Considering how LW is lagging behind the other major 3D apps - and continues to be split with ZERO INDICATION that integration is actually even starting to take place... changing your upgrade policy is not warranted. It was one of THE pluses that I have always touted about Lightwave and mentioned when defending it in other forums.

    And offering future upgrades for those not current at nearly 67% of the regular price... sorry Rob, that's just not right. What's next? Subscription Only?

    You intentionally refuse to communicate with your customers - though I'm sure several diehard fans will come here and refute that as they always do - and then communicate by hitting us with "Stay Current or PAY the price."

    Fine Rob. You just keep pushing customers away. Ultimately it looks like all of my investments in Lightwave - my 11 licenses - as well as over $20k of plugins over the years, will be relegated to the junk software drawer. I find it incredibly sad that the one software app that I LONGED to buy back in the early 90's I now no longer even like. The company I worked for used cracked versions - I vowed that if ever I started my own business I would BUY a legal license. I did - and then bought more than the number of employees that used cracked versions where I used to work. It was my way of supporting Newtek.

    During the last few years, the path that the LW3DG has chosen to pursue is not one that is customer-friendly. Previously I supported LW because I believed in the company. Now - and after talking with many current and former 'wavers - I no longer believe that.

    I wish you well, but I think that all of the management decisions within the last few years have been bad and ill-advised. Your customers have asked for communication - yet you procrastinate and show everyone that nothing has changed. It's too bad that your one post in here has to be answered with one that is negative.

    Good luck LW3DG.
    Dave Williams
    Digital Sorcery Warehouse LLC

  8. #8
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalodon2.0 View Post
    So let me get this straight...

    When this begins, Lightwave will no longer have their incredible upgrade system where you can upgrade from any version for the same price?
    Apparently that is correct, going forward.

    Quote Originally Posted by Megalodon2.0 View Post
    And the upgrade price will then be close to 70% of the full retail price for anyone more than one version back?
    Ouch, good point (I'd overlooked that detail), and yes, apparently correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by Megalodon2.0 View Post
    If this is the case - and I hope I'm wrong - then LW3DG keeps going further down the tubes - IMO.
    As a customer, I can't really say I "like" all their recent decisions (though I DO like some of them), but I do find myself at least better able to understand the current batch of decisions, versus batches in the not-so-past which still don't appear to make any long-term sense at all.

    Annual cost? Makes sense, LW3DG clearly has a serious revenue problem, so short of subscription revenue (which they lack the customer base to really capitalize upon) their approach is pretty decent alternative that still leaves them the ability to brag that they are not a subscription vendor.

    That said, I think LW3DG already have significant trouble keeping engineering output and quality consistently high enough to satisfy customers release after release, and more frequent version releases will seriously exacerbate that issue. Time will tell. If LW version upgrades become primarily vehicles for bug fixes to prior versions' bugs, LW will quickly fade to black. OTOH, if LW3DG can revitalize and maintain new development while sustaining quality at an acceptable level within version cycles, LW3DG might again be able to garner the more reliable revenue stream they so obviously need.
    Last edited by jwiede; 09-25-2015 at 10:32 PM.
    John W.
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    Registered User calilifestyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwiede View Post
    The email refers to the web posting, apparently referring to the text I quoted in the post I quoted.

    Given charter/post-charter are required to stay current, and staying current yields a $295 upgrade price in future release(s) for any current license holders, there effectively isn't any reason for charter/post-charter anymore. The only thing that would meaningfully change that would be if they went back to pricing where upgrades potentially cost >$395/$495 -- not impossible, hence my comment about whether pricing "persists", as lately LW3DG pricing models' longevity has been quite limited.

    Short-term, a good step, longer-term, who knows. How they handle LW2016* will tell MUCH more about LW3DG's future than this, though, I suspect.

    *: The latest offer did rather clearly imply the next version would release very soon. That, in turn, strongly hints LW3DG is now functioning on an annual release model -- time will tell whether LW3DG can produce enough to justify a $295 annual upgrade cost, I definitely have some doubts there.

    Hmm, I also seem to recall a bunch of highly-LW3DG-devoted folks recently denigrating The Foundry over modo's annual upgrade cycle. I wonder how they'll put a positive spin on LW3DG moving to the same cycle?
    Modo upgrade price hasn't changed . i have 601 and can still upgrade for the same price to 901.
    unless something has been stated.
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  10. #10
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by calilifestyle View Post
    Modo upgrade price hasn't changed . i have 601 and can still upgrade for the same price to 901.
    unless something has been stated.
    Sorry, I probably needed to be clearer, but didn't want to edit more: They were denigrating how modo's annual upgrade cycle implicitly caused quality issues, and I was wondering how they'd be able to explain LW moving to an annual cycle as a good thing in light of that. I was not suggesting any other pkgs' pricing models had changed.
    Last edited by jwiede; 09-25-2015 at 10:32 PM.
    John W.
    LW2015.3UB/2018.0.7 on MacPro(12C/24T/10.13.6),32GB RAM, NV 980ti

  11. #11
    Registered User calilifestyle's Avatar
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    I guess it doesn't hurt for wait for lw2016. if upgrade now and then again in the next few weeks that's 690. I know i'll save 100 bucks, but what if lw2016 doen't have what i need/want.
    if they would hook me up now with 295 upgrade...then for sure.
    Last edited by calilifestyle; 09-25-2015 at 10:45 PM.
    Ell no 'ta enamora' de mi, yo tampoco

  12. #12
    "Indie" Game Artist GandB's Avatar
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    Well, unless the upgrade from V9 to 2016 (is it?) is over $700; then I won't be saving anything by taking this path. Judging from past precedent (and the way the game dev community has been largely ignored here); I don't think I'll be pre-ordering anything. I will, however, keep an eye on the "big" release when it happens.
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  13. #13
    The e-mail you sent out seems badly worded:
    LightWave 2015 Last Chance Upgrade Promotion
    Last Chance $295 Upgrade Now!

    A Special Note to Our Charter and Post-Charter Members


    We have received a number of requests to simplify the upgrade program from our Charter and Post-Charter members who have found the process somewhat confusing. In the past you received the special upgrade price of $495 or $395 depending on your Charter program status.

    We heard your requests and we think we have come up with an easier approach for everyone.

    It’s this simple: remain current with LightWave and receive the special upgrade price of $295. As Charter and Post-Charter members we are giving you the opportunity to take advantage of this upgrade price now!

    Act now to ensure your special upgrade pricing before promotion ends!
    Last Chance $295 Upgrade Now!
    Limited time offer! Ends September 30, 2015
    Sounds like an offer of an upgrade to 2015 at a price of $295. What ever, I'll be ordering my upgrade to 2015 at $395.

  14. #14
    We're current so, if the next LW version is good, this would be great for us. However, objectively, having to almost buy the package again if you ever miss 1 upgrade is too harsh.

    If this is necessary, and it might well be, there should, at least, be 1 or 2 upgrade cycles for 495 before dropping the full $800 bus on people who had a bad year. Especially those with multiple licenses who are able to upgrade some but can't upgrade all every single year.

  15. #15
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    I have to say, I'm really loving this deal. As a post-charter member I held off upgrading to LW2015 and I'm kinda glad I did since now I'm able to get it and all future upgrades for $295.

    The only concern I have is whether LW3DUG are going to start releasing new versions of LW annually, because if they are then I'd have to say that's not far off from being an annual subscription system which is not something I agree with. I'd much prefer releases to come every two or so years so I can get my money's worth.

    Still, for now I think this is a great deal.

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